[cha1n]

Hey

I'm going to have a proper look at Powerplant tomorrow and wondered if the ukb collective could give some useful beta for it? Photos of written notes or copy and paste from somewhere, perhaps a photo of you on the crux? Anything appreciated. I had a google first, seems lots of people have done it but can't find anything of note on the beta front.

Think I have a vague idea of how to do the bulge from my (very) brief play on it recently but I've heard it's very beta intensive, so appreciate any tips that can be given. Thanks!

[mic_b]

I can't remember my sequence very well but I didn't use any knee bars/scums and the crux didn't feel too hard. I thought what you loose in the moves being slighytly harder you gaines in the lack of faff / extra time of using the knee's

[cha1n]

Thanks Mic, you're not the first person to mention not using the kneebar (which suits me as my right knee is slightly injured). I'll try both methods.

[kc]

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=18285.0

[cha1n]

Thanks kc (Kristian?). I went through 7 pages of google search results before posting this thread and still somehow managed to miss that.

[highrepute]

I didn't use the knee bar either. Beyond that I'd have to be there for it to be worth explaining any beta. Chance I'll be there tomorrow eve.

[205Chris]

There are many different ways to do the crux, I used Sam Whittaker's beta which was a huge mistake in hindsight as I have arms like pipe cleaners and he doesn't.

Extending the third clip helps, most people clip it from the jug to the left of the big undercut. If you have the reach then you can go straight to this hold from the RH undercut by the second bolt which saves a few moves.

[cha1n]

Cool, maybe see you there James. I'll be there from about 5 unless my partner cancels last minute (he's coming from Scotland!).

Thanks Chris, I'll look into that. I read a few of your powerclub entries to see if there was any beta in them. Seemed like you had an epic journey with the route! Was it your first 8a?

[TobyD]

Ignore all the knee bar sceptics. Strap 2 wads of rubber to your knees and watch the crux disappear.

[cha1n]

There are some brief clips of Katherine Schirrmacher on Powerplant from 5:20 in here; https://www.thebmc.co.uk/mothers-day-climbing-mums I'm not sure how tall she is but presumably it's short person beta.

I tried using a dropknee to come into the crimp with the left hand like her but I just don't fit into that space, it's too bunched for me. Found at least 2 easier ways of ending up matched on crimps than that. Much easier to go straight to the right hand crimp from the giant undercut, then the methods I came up with for matching are left toehook on massive sidepull level with big undercut OR left kneebar on big undercut OR get the right kneebar in straight from right on on crimp with left hand still in big undercut (quite a stretched position). Just realised that the last method was Haydn's idea!

Looking forward to getting back and trying to do the actual hard bit!

[cha1n]

Also found this on UKC:

A short person's way:
From the undercut at the main roof, get the left of the 2 crimps with right hand. Get excellent left knee-bar by lefthand undercut. Then move right hand to the right crimp. Then clip bolt over roof. With knee-bar still in place move left hand to left crimp.
Now, holding both crimps, I think right foot then goes down first to small but obvious foothold then I think left foot goes on to that foothold and right foot is lifted quite high to sloping foothold where a poor knee-bar can be had. Then either slap from that position to the poorish undercut out right or right hand first uses an undercut by right knee to steady yourself while the left hand is moved to the right crimp (Stone's method) then the right hand goes to the poorish undercut up and right. From this position you need to decide whether you want to move straight up (Simon Lee's method) or go back over to the holds up on the left (the more usual way).
Hope that helps.

It's true, Stone does lose concentration if anyone speaks to him or shouts encouragement at him when he's climbing.

Trying to make this an actual useful beta thread as the last one linked above was crap!

[cha1n]

Just remembered another sequence which I witnessed last night, it worked for the guy, he got through the crux a fair few times with the sequence which is very different to the others with no kneebars involved. He was short and having tried it myself can confirm it being short person's beta. Can't remember his name (sorry, bad with names) but remembered his partner's name who is West Philadelphia born and raised! The sequence:

Get matched on the crimps by whatever method you can. This guy had to go from the jug sidepull to the first crimp with his right hand, get a left heel on the side of the juggy undercut then bump his left hand straight up to one of the small, vague textured sidepulls on the bulge. Then go again with the right hand to the other crimp, then bring left hand in so both hands were on the crimps, then he used a high left heel on the bulge (below the textured one he was using for his left hand previously) to bring the left hand straight up into the slopey sidepull above the bulge (the one that is pretty much the last move of the crux if you go rightwards with the kneebar method). He then got a high right foot and did what looked like a powerful pop move to get into the big right hand undercut, then up into the juggy undercut/gaston for the right hand as per usual.

[cha1n]

OK, finally did the crux yesterday. This is the only method I could get to work consistently, it's quite a fit of faff and I may end up changing it but I really couldn't get the kneebar to work that well. The sequence:

Left hand in the huge undercut pre-crux, right foot on obvious inch wide, polished edge and make a big but OK move the right hand crimp with your right hand. Step through miles with the left foot and put the kneebar in with the righ toe on the obvious polished foot below the kneebar (you sort of go out and around, then back to get the kneebar in). I then toehook with the left foot under one of the overlaps and come into an undercut on the bulge for a second with my left hand which allows me to take my right hand off of the crimp and get the good undercut by the kneebar. I then move my left hand onto the right hand crimp pull in as high as I can and statically reach up into the intermediate sidepull for the left hand (the one Bob Hickish is on here; https://i2.wp.com/lh3.ggpht.com/_ANt-4WOXWlw/S_qC8Phwj3I/AAAAAAAAAG4/mdQTfp8lvi0/_MG_74992%5B2%5D.jpg, then I bump the right hand up into the higher, scoopy part of the big undercut. I then start to standup into the holds and unwind the kneebar but it's still partially in whilst I get my left foot onto a small foothold level (I think) with the rightfoot (thanks for pointing that out Haydn) then do the bump to the bigger, slopey sidepull. I then do some weird off-balance move to roll over with the right hand into the tooth shaped gaston flake with the right hand. *clip*

Hope this helps someone in the future. I'm 6'1, so may well not work for the short.

[shark]

This is going back a while but I seem to recall when I got out right under the overlap I kept the knee bar in perpendicular to the rock and was able to reach higher that seemed possible for a square cut edge. I assume you are using kneepads. I had pieces of carpet strapped to my thighs (hessian side up)

[cha1n]

Thanks for the comment Shark. Most people advised to front point the foot with the kneebar but I never associated it with increasing reach but seems obvious now.

I think I know the edge you're talking about but it's quite a bit higher than the big uncut (or is it just quite far right of the big undercut). Not sure but I don't think I can reach out from the knee bar or I'd have tried it. I had a good look around for downwards pullable holds after seeing the above photo of Hickish, where he appears to have his right hand on a crimp.  There are a few at that height but they're all tiny! I'll have another look when I'm there next anyway (tomorrow), cheers.

[cha1n]

Actually, you can see the blocky crimp level with the rope end biner on the next draw. You must of had go go gadget arms back then!

[tomtom]

back then!

Harsh... But funny

[shark]

Actually, you can see the blocky crimp level with the rope end biner on the next draw. You must of had go go gadget arms back then!

Try it. I'm 5"9. It is common to squeeze a kneebar in by sitting on it but you can also squeeze it in by raising arse and pressing withe other foot which extends your reach

[TobyD]

Actually, you can see the blocky crimp level with the rope end biner on the next draw. You must of had go go gadget arms back then!

Try it. I'm 5"9. It is common to squeeze a kneebar in by sitting on it but you can also squeeze it in by raising arse and pressing withe other foot which extends your reach

i'm 5'8.5" and I did it more or less like that too

[AlistairB]

Actually, you can see the blocky crimp level with the rope end biner on the next draw. You must of had go go gadget arms back then!

Try it. I'm 5"9. It is common to squeeze a kneebar in by sitting on it but you can also squeeze it in by raising arse and pressing withe other foot which extends your reach

i'm 5'8.5" and I did it more or less like that too

My other half is 5' 7" and did it that way too, it's the way to go unless you're proper short. Paste the left foot smearing to push yourself towards the hold.

[cha1n]

Thanks all, that's too many recommendations not to give it a little try at least, I'm not very good at kneebars though. Haydn said he could probably get a brief hands of rest on that kneebar if he wanted but I have to really fight to get it to stay in.

Did you do it that way Alistair? You're about my height I think! In all fairness I don't find it too bad once I have the undercut and the intermediate sidepull but the bump to the other sidepull is dropable and that crimp you mention is like the best hold in that hole section excluding the flake. I only use it for a foot after the crux currently.

[AlistairB]

Did you do it that way Alistair? You're about my height I think! In all fairness I don't find it too bad once I have the undercut and the intermediate sidepull but the bump to the other sidepull is dropable and that crimp you mention is like the best hold in that hole section excluding the flake. I only use it for a foot after the crux currently.

Yeah, that was my sequence, most of the rest sounds like you're doing what I did anyway. Get the right knee in off the crimps with RF on the chip, reach the sloping dish above the undercut with RH, flag LF under so you can get LH on the sidepull then LF smearing out left (not really on much, just where feels right) to push you over to the good flat RH (may feel like a bit of a pop but the knee should stay in making it pretty steady). Then knee out, left foot on the closest crimp and LH to the good undercut/sidepull hold.

For getting the knee to stick I think you want to push with your calf muscles, so keep your ankle up and push the top of the thigh into it. I would have one quick shake of the RH on my way through this sequence but trying to be greedy with resting here always made the knee fall out for me.

[cha1n]

Ah cool, thanks for the detailed sequence. Apart from using the right knee, that's nothing like mine and it also explains what Hickish has his right hand on the photo (the sloping dish, I had spotted that but dismissed it).

I'll certainly give this method a try as my one works but is very hard and seeing as it seems to be emerging that this is a soft 8a through things I've read (even though ukc votes don't seem to indicate this), I must be doing the crux in a hard way.

[AlistairB]

Ah cool, thanks for the detailed sequence. Apart from using the right knee, that's nothing like mine and it also explains what Hickish has his right hand on the photo (the sloping dish, I had spotted that but dismissed it).

Yeah, if you put your thumb under the dish and pinch it works surprisingly well. Most of the weight is still carried by the knee though.

[DaveyDave]

Anyone know a way of doing it from RH on juggy sidepull right of the big undercuts and LH good crimp (over the bulge, furthest right) and RH on juggy sidepull right of the big undercuts without a kneebar? Only got Aldi XL knee supports and my knee is black and blue from trying to squeeze the kneebar in (also hate kneebars!) Feels totally desperate, but would much rather do it without the faff.