[grimer]

Maybe so. I did have a bit of a crush on him.

[petejh]

Boring science bit - the performance-arousal curve. There's a good description of it in the recent book 'Vertical Mind'. The optimum state is aroused but not beyond a certain point where anxiety starts to kick in. So you want to be pleasantly excited but not anxious nor disinterested to the point of not trying.


There's a lot of stuff out there about using heart rate variability to monitor your state of arousal (low HRV is also strongly correlated to various health issues).

I find deep breathing useful.

[Andy W]

One of the best day's bouldering I ever had was years ago, on an evening at Stanage the day I had interviewed Marc le Menestral for OTE. He had just pissed the second ascent of Brad Pit and a bunch of other things too. The thing he talked about was enjoying the process, not focusing on the outcome. Enjoy every try and be involved in every try. I know it's the sort of thing anyone could say but it was really on my mind the following evening when I managed Deliverance, the Green Traverse and a variation on the Green Traverse for the first time - all problems I'd tried loads before. Marc's words really sunk in and removed that spectre of 'failure' that often hung over me. I've kept his words with me ever since.

Or it could be some form of posittive excitement?

I often get a certain boost when in the proximity of climbers I perceive as legends.

I like the phrase 'spectre of failure', that describes it quite well. Its quite possible to think you're doing all the right stuff, visualisation, breathing, being in the moment etc. But that spectre, the niggle, the set up for failure is always so close. For example I often find myself entertaining a negative thought, like 'oh its a bit damp/greasy' just as I start a problem.

Anyhow a very enlightening response and I feel so much better having admitted my weakness

[Rocksteady]

I often find that my best performances are when I'm not 'expecting' to succeed - where it's on something I've tried lots of times it'll be a go when I sort of feel like I've got a chance but let's just see where I get to - likewise for an onsight it'll be a 'let's just see how it goes' feeling rather than feeling really fired up to succeed.

[hstmoore]

likewise for an onsight it'll be a 'let's just see how it goes'

"ill just go up for a look" is something I've found myself saying/thinking before many an onsight!

[moose]

Chris Sharma once summed it up quite simply (one of the Dosages, I think), "you've got to want it, but not want it". 

As a partly applicable aside, my biggest route tick (Urgent Action) came on a go intended as "working on lead" (a situation I assumed would persist for a few months).  My words to my belayer before setting off were "I'll be really happy if, by the end of the day, I can get to the third-height rest after the 4th clip" (I had only ever managed a move at the 4th bolt in isolation)!  Similar has happened on other occasions - I guess it shows the benefit of being under absolutely no self-imposed pressure; at least until towards the end of the route, when you are terrified that you'll never fluke your way up there again! It has caused me to work most routes on lead, even when it is perhaps not the most efficient way of sussing out the moves - the hope of another happy accident.

[cjsheps]

I've found familiarity helps. Just as any competitive athlete will simulate competition day a large proportion of their training time, being used to going for it when the chips are down needs stress-proofing.

My advice would be to mentally simulate (or just put yourself in) the "perfrmance environment" time after time, with positive feedback. Eventually, your "autopilot" setting when the time comes will be a positive, focussed mindset.

Or that's the idea...

[ghisino]

Does no one go for a walk and a dump these days. My how times have changed.

I once had an unfinished project in an improbable crag: fine routes on excellent rock but short, few of them, far from home and from major trip crags.

One day I had the occasion to come back for a two hours "killing it" session.

As a way to prepare myself mentally read into the future I went to poop before putting my harness on.

As I realized that I had just produced a glorious "perfect", I gained full confidence that I would send within the short time I had imposed myself. And I did.

[Johnny Brown]

Bouldering, I normally take a break by doing something easy but ideally bold. The worse jitters I ever had were in 1998 or 9 when I realised I was about to do Brad Pit, and went to pieces. Convinced it would be the next go, it was hard to stop trying, but obvious I was going backwards. Soloing White Wand sorted my head out perfectly, and I did it next go. Probably no use for sport climbing though. Alternatively, sit down, look at the view and take at least ten deep breaths, and try to still your mind. Meditation is clearly a bit of a dirty word for climbers, judging by the yoga thread, but that's what you're trying to achieve either way. Doesn't need to be anything spiritual about it, just concentrate fully on doing something - climbing, breathing whatever, and not on the mental chatter.

Pretending it doesn't matter would seem to require some serious suspension of disbelief.  Much as I know the journey is more important than the destination, take a step back and I've orchestrated my entire life around climbing at the expense of most of what is normally defined as success in life. So for me, it really fucking matters.

[rich d]

I'm shit at climbing but do have other things in life that I'm good at and care about. Try to think about and isolate the factor(s) of where the pressure comes from. Is it fear of failure, fear of wasted time, looking stupid, feeling you're not good enough? etc etc once you work out which or which combination of fears it is you're more likely to be able to address it.

[Rocksteady]

I think for me a good feeling for a successful hard (for me) climb is unweighting myself of the expectation of doing it. I have to feel that it's possible I'll do it that go, but not that I 'have' to do it that go - or something like that.

It does matter to me whether I get up something: but it sort of helps if it doesn't matter if I get up it 'this time'. I have to want to do it (because I'm going to have to fight), but not want it too much 'right now'.

Of course onsighting this is very difficult, which is probably one of the reasons why I'm not too great at it.

I think the point ThreeNine made about making sure it's still fun is spot on. In 2010 I had a whole year where I stopped enjoying the process of climbing, because I put such expectations on myself to improve. This basically meant I spent a lot of time trying lots of things that were too hard for me, not succeeding on anything, but feeling that I 'should' have done it.

I think turning that feeling from 'I should be able to do this, this go' to something like 'I could do this, this go, if it goes well' has really helped me (a) to climb more successfully, and (b) to enjoy it more.

On days where I've got frustrated it's always the expectation that I 'should' be able to do something that has wound me up.

[rginns]

I recognise almost everything you say in myself Rocksteady.... interesting

[andy popp]

likewise for an onsight it'll be a 'let's just see how it goes'

"ill just go up for a look" is something I've found myself saying/thinking before many an onsight!

I always used to say "I'll just have a look" as I started a big headpoint. Obviously, I never actually meant any such thing at all, I was going up. I'm not sure where it came from though, I don't think I started doing it deliberately.

[Johnny Brown]

It's a very sensible mindset - instead of thinking about the whole thing you are bringing your focus to the present moment. I try to approach pretty much every climb in that mindset - take each move as it comes and don't worry about the crux or runout until it arrives.

[remus]

It's a very sensible mindset - instead of thinking about the whole thing you are bringing your focus to the present moment. I try to approach pretty much every climb in that mindset - take each move as it comes and don't worry about the crux or runout until it arrives.

Reminds me Andy Kirkpatrick talking about Reticent Wall in Psychovertical. Can't remember the details, but he was sitting on a ledge feeling intimidated by all the hard climbing to go, feeling generally inadequate etc. Managed to relax a bit and 'just had a little look' for the first few placements on the next pitch, found something fairly decent and before you know it he was off, aid soloing some really desperate stuff.

I guess the point is that often the whole thing in it's entirety is overwhelming ("I might get to the top of this thing Ive been trying for the last year!"), but by 'just having a look' you can force yourself in to just taking each section as it comes so you relax and generally climb much better as a result.

[andy popp]

It's a very sensible mindset - instead of thinking about the whole thing you are bringing your focus to the present moment. I try to approach pretty much every climb in that mindset - take each move as it comes and don't worry about the crux or runout until it arrives.

I agree, except with headpointing it was complete self-deception, as I had no intention of doing anything but climbing to the end. It still worked somehow.

But I think it is a vital tactic in trad on-sighting, where thinking just a few steps ahead provides the necessary focus and keeps things manageable. There is a balance though, as we need some awareness of the 'bigger picture,' especially the point at which we will be really committed - that needs to be quite a conscious decision based on some thinking ahead. The most dangerous position I ever ended up in was a result of thinking of nothing but the next move and not looking up - suddenly, with about being prepared, I was ultra committed in a very dangerous situation (albeit this was soloing but the principal is the same).

[ghisino]

Pretending it doesn't matter would seem to require some serious suspension of disbelief.  Much as I know the journey is more important than the destination, take a step back and I've orchestrated my entire life around climbing at the expense of most of what is normally defined as success in life. So for me, it really fucking matters.

spot on.
"doesn't matter" can only work for some of us.

i've heard two more realistic approaches, that should work even if "it really matters".

1)acknowledging that you will never have 100% control. You can't control weather conditions, climbing partners, and many other hings that still have an impact on your climbing performance.

2) Accepting that in any way, failure is a part of every game and especially so if you are trying something difficult.

3) As a result, all you can do is giving your best effort and hoping to be lucky. You can blame yourself for stupid errors, for giving up, but not for failing in itself.

[Johnny Brown]

The most dangerous position I ever ended up in was a result of thinking of nothing but the next move and not looking up - suddenly, with about being prepared, I was ultra committed in a very dangerous situation (albeit this was soloing but the principal is the same).

Ooh you tease Andy, what was it?

2) Accepting that in any way, failure is a part of every game and especially so if you are trying something difficult.

Exactly. It really matters, but what matters to me is not a tick but being there and trying to climb well. Some of my proudest efforts have not resulted in a tick at the end, not necessarily because I failed but maybe because I was seconding or doing something I'd done before without the same form.

[Muenchener]

Exactly. It really matters, but what matters to me is not a tick but being there and trying to climb well. Some of my proudest efforts have not resulted in a tick at the end, not necessarily because I failed but maybe because I was seconding or doing something I'd done before without the same form.

Exactly. The first 7a I tried has a bit of a scary third clip. Worked it on toprope a couple of times after my mate led it, and was quite worried about getting on the lead on something that was physically harder than I had ever tried before and scary. So I decided my goal was to get that clip, and that would make it a good day. It was fine and I carried on as far as the crux a couple of bolts higher. Not finishing the route didn't matter; I had been on the sharp end on a route at that grade. After that I knew I could and it was just a matter of time. Redpointed my first 7a (different one) a few weeks later.

[Sasquatch]

In my experience with "clearing the head", I've found two options which have been successful for me. 

One is the tricking yourself into lowered expectations as has been mentioned before on this thread.  The idea of just using it as a "practice" run or training.

The other I use is to visualize every single foot and hand move before, then sitting down and clearing my head of everything and meditating for about 30 seconds.  Pull on before I can think of anything, and just start moving in the moment. 

No idea on mental prep for onsighting. 

Exactly. It really matters, but what matters to me is not a tick but being there and trying to climb well. Some of my proudest efforts have not resulted in a tick at the end, not necessarily because I failed but maybe because I was seconding or doing something I'd done before without the same form.

I dunno.  I think they both matter.  The tick and climbing well.  At the end of the day I want both.  If I'm honest, I'd be absolutely aggrieved to not get the tick despite climbing well. 

[Nibile]

Alex Adler made the first repeat of Action Directe after calling it a day, when he went up to strip the draws on the way down...

[Johnny Brown]

Relevant here too:

Loved this ... it's been a long time since I have read something that resonated so much with me. Probably an age thing. OK, definitely an age thing. Bill Ramsay on sending 5.14b aged 54: http://eveningsends.com/climbing/the-day-i-sent-golden-5-14b/

[Rocksteady]

Relevant here too:

Loved this ... it's been a long time since I have read something that resonated so much with me. Probably an age thing. OK, definitely an age thing. Bill Ramsay on sending 5.14b aged 54: http://eveningsends.com/climbing/the-day-i-sent-golden-5-14b/

That is one of the all time best articles I've read about the why and how of climbing hard. Brilliant.

[roddersm]

Have really struggled when feeling expectation and pressure to climb something - specifically climbing in front of others (especially better climbers), competitions, fear of falling off on routes and failure - often failing on climbs way below my limit as a result.

Recently been reading the rock warriors way by Arno Igner, the art of mental training by dc Gonzales, Mind Gym by David Casstevens and finding some improvements. there are recent good podcasts from all of these as well as Hazel Findlay.

Key concepts that have helped-

Breathing exercises - helps slow the heart rate and to focus and then some visualization before getting on the problem/route.

Positive self talk - detaching from inner self critic, Igner describes the witness position where you can observe you thoughts from the conscious mind and ignore/deal with them.

Staying present - detach from past performances, performance of others and focusing on the process at hand - i.e. climbing the moves, rather than getting to the top.

Not being afraid of failing - accept this as part of the learning process. You need to risk failure to push your comfort zone. I think coming from a trad background  especially failure/falling off is seen as a really negative thing which can be unhelpful for long term development.

Determining phantom fears from real ones - is there a real danger if you fall off -if not the fear and resultant anxiety is irrational.

All sounds a bit cliché but I find that if I reinforce these every session I am able to be a bit less anxious, self-concious and climb a bit closer to my limit.   

[tomtom]

I do two things to help...

In between attempts (when having longish rests - say 15-20 min) I play patience on my phone as it detaches my mind from where I am - stops me over thinking the problem - pacing up and down the crag etc.. I then feel mentally fresh (or emotionally empty more to the point) when I have my attempt.

When doing the problem, I sometimes mantra to my self.. some of my most recent hard problems (Weedkiller, Keel and now Jericho road) have fairly long sequences that need to be done fast but precisely to save some strength for later on in the problem. So, when doing the first part of the problem I chant something like 'fast and smooth' to myself under my breath... I did something similar when learning to snowboard and kept bottling out of of turns - I would go down the slope chanting 'speed is my friend' to myself all the time... a bit bonkers but it works!

I also time my rests and structure the time of my attempts - so I have a routine/schedule to stick by.. Forces me to rest properly..