[TheTwig]

I know it's hardly reinventing the wheel but most of time I've been climbing I've always focused on getting a huge meal in afterwards as I always feel absolutely drained (I usually climb indoors for 4 hours! ), usually this will be a big plate of brown rice/lentil curry style dish, pasta based dish or something along those lines with paneer or a whey shake for protein (I'm vegetarian). I guess this is partly habit left over from when I was a club swimmer and was eating 2 dinners after training etc. It also takes ages to eat fruit/veg compared to being able to shovel down some tasty carbs!

Anyway recently I've gradually switched over to eating far fewer calories but trying to eat as much fruit and veg as possible +protein/fat source, so usually a whey shake with powdered oats immediately after climbing, then 40 mins later when I'm home a gigantic salad and some roast/steamed veg etc. Recovery has definitely improved and I'm noticably less sore the next day.

While I'm on the topic, anyone have any favourite foods post-climbing? (beer and steak don't count!)

[T_B]

Tinned fish.

I've recently re-read 'Racing Weight' and am consciously trying to eat carbs before climbing and protein afterwards.. and a smaller meal in the evening. Plenty of high satiety fruit and veg.

Feeling pretty knackered commuting on my bike at the moment though. Not sure if that's just because I'm taking in fewer calories overall or just lost fitness from a 3-week break in Feb?

I don't tend to ever get sore/stiff after climbing (apart from fingers) but I think that is because I normally do short sessions (very rarely more than 2.5 hours). The occasions that I do climb for longer I really notice it the following day or the day after. Personally, I'd get more from 2 x 2hr sessions than 1 x 4hr session. Recover quicker, train harder next session. Depends how fit you are overall of course (and how old  ).

[mctrials23]

Climbing for 4 hours in a session is not a good idea if you want to get stronger. I used to do mammoth sessions when I started climbing in my later teens and you get better quickly but its not the best way to get stronger. If your session is lasting more than 2 hours you are probably training endurance more than anything else. Even then you will either have to reduce the intensity to a point where there is little benefit or take huge amounts of rest to get any quality from it.

If you can get another session in the week and make each one shorter or simply fingerboard as well as climb I think you will do much better.

[Nibile]

Don't want to offend anyone, but I seriously doubt that your increased recovery ability is due to having more fruit and veggies.
You've changed quite heavily your eating habits, so I think it's hard to say what caused what. I think that a better recovery could be due more to the protein and fat intake than to fruit and veggies.
In fact, fructose - unlike other sugars - is only partially stored as muscle glycogen, while most of it is firstly stored in the liver (to a certain amount that is not much) then the excess goes in as fat.
What you've done, in reality, is one of the given advices for changing body composition, reducing carbs and upping proteins and fats. Despite common thinking, you can improve body composition by eating some fats, if they're not teamed with carbs. It's the fats/carbs combination that is lethal for gaining fat.
If you want to discover what really improved your recovery ability, you should be more precise in keeping the same exact intensity/volume of training (something that is really hard to judge), and changing one single eating habit at a time. Leaving aside all the other factors like normal changes in sleep, form, psyche, etc. that are very difficult to check and can cause huge changes in performance.
Anyway, I hope I didn't sound as if I wanted to put you down, I didn't mean. I am only suggesting that this could be a case of "post hoc, propter hoc": if something happens after something, not always what happened first is the cause of what happened later on.
I hope you keep progressing anyway! 
 

[slackline]

In fact, fructose - unlike other sugars - is only partially stored as muscle glycogen, while most of it is firstly stored in the liver (to a certain amount that is not much) then the excess goes in as fat.

Glycogen is a polysaccharide of glucose.

Fructose is not glucose although as that page states in its opening, it sometimes bonds with glucose to form disaccharides so this may be the partial storage of fructose you're referring to, but since glycogen is made of multiple units of glucose then fructose itself is never forms glycogen.

Polysaccharides of fructose are called Levan polysaccharides

[Bencil]

Fructose -> Glucose -> Glycogen
happens mostly in the Liver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructolysis

[slackline]

Yep, but fructose itself is never stored as glycogen, thats all I was saying.

[Nibile]

Yep, but fructose itself is never stored as glycogen, thats all I was saying.

Even less useful for recovery, then. Right?

[slackline]

No idea, I don't train with any degree of dedication at all and typically recover by going to the pub and 

[TheTwig]

Climbing for 4 hours in a session is not a good idea if you want to get stronger. I used to do mammoth sessions when I started climbing in my later teens and you get better quickly but its not the best way to get stronger. If your session is lasting more than 2 hours you are probably training endurance more than anything else. Even then you will either have to reduce the intensity to a point where there is little benefit or take huge amounts of rest to get any quality from it.

If you can get another session in the week and make each one shorter or simply fingerboard as well as climb I think you will do much better.

I hear you on the 4 hour marathon sessions. They were what prompted me to do anything possible try and recover a bit better, shakes, massage, hot bath, epsom salts, whatever! (these all do work IMHO). The problem I have is I live 1 hour away from Boulder Brighton (amazing place btw), 45-50 minutes from White Spider (also amazing) and 30 minutes from K2 Crawley (a bit shit tbh) so the incentive is there to get max value for money/travel time invested. I'm considering either doing more lightish fingerboarding all year or building a tiny wall in my loft, so I can do shorter but more regular sessions. It's so frustrating 


Nibile I know what you mean, It's almost impossible to pin down any progress to one thing, but as a vegetarian who hates vegetables I have a real love/hate relationship with healthy food. lol. Whether it's the increased nutrtient density or reduced total intake of carbs as a % of my diet who knows, but it seems to be helping

Breaking into the 6b-6c range on steep walls finally, after being able to climb ~7a on slabs for a year. 

[Fultonius]

but as a vegetarian who hates vegetables 

  Why?

[TheTwig]

but as a vegetarian who hates vegetables 

  Why?

1) I was raised in a vegetarian family, but even if I wasn't..
2) I don't believe in causing pain to creatures with nervous systems / pain receptors. I'm slightly more comfortable with people who have to hunt for a living, e.g. bonafide natives living in the amazon and such, if I was stranded in the Andes or on a desert island and had to eat meat obviously I would (it's just human programming) but I wouldn't enjoy it
3) vegetarian/vegan, or at least very low meat diet is better for the environment for most of the world.

As to why I hate vegetables, I'm a bloody fussy eater 

[Fultonius]

Fair enough, I'm about 80% veggie because my lass is and it makes life easier, but I bloody love vegetables. Nom nom.

I agree that eating less meat is better for the environment.

I don't give a shit about the fluffy little buggers, gimme the gun!

Nom nom.

[TheTwig]

Fair enough, I'm about 80% veggie because my lass is and it makes life easier, but I bloody love vegetables. Nom nom.

I agree that eating less meat is better for the environment.

I don't give a shit about the fluffy little buggers, gimme the gun!

Nom nom.

Ha you did make me laugh at the last bit! I'm all for invasive species being shot, though if it's something 'nature' could handle on it's own I would be happier with that, e.g. the destruction of large parts of habitat by deer in the UK, bring back the wolves I say! (and Beavers, they are cute as hell).

Likes: Broccoli, Butternut Squash, Cauliflower, anything that can go in a salad, potatoes, pumpkin
Dislikes: Sweet potato, courgette, aubergine, avacado, onions, peppers, garlic, just about any other vegetable that I can't think of atm. It's a pain in the ass. I actually had to 'force' myself to like salad at first, tho I love it now. Just all the chewing is a pain. Anyone got a spare set of cow's teeth I can have?

[webbo]

Just juice/ liquidise it, so no chewing.

[TheTwig]

All the criticism I've read of juicing everything is that basically you are just destroying all the fibre, and so getting a gigantic hit of sugar every time you neck one of the shakes, though god it does taste good. Apple+Carrot juice, nom nom. Might have to get back into doing it, and skip the eccles cake to balance the books