[Grubes]

My nearest wall is 1mile from my house and never go there
My next nearest wall is 2miles from where I work 5 from where I live I rarely go there.

I usually drive about 20miles away to the depot because I prefer it.
I also travel to the works on occassion which takes almost an hour each way.

I would rather travel to a good wall than settle for a close one 10miles is not that far really.

The question you need to ask is what can you do better than everyone else to make people travel to your wall

[mrjonathanr]

Northeast Scotland, on the other hand...

Both the residents of that region said they'd rather climb outdoors, but one of the sheep seemed keen...

You can't beat good market research

[Oldmanmatt]

My nearest wall is 1mile from my house and never go there
My next nearest wall is 2miles from where I work 5 from where I live I rarely go there.

I usually drive about 20miles away to the depot because I prefer it.
I also travel to the works on occassion which takes almost an hour each way.

I would rather travel to a good wall than settle for a close one 10miles is not that far really.

The question you need to ask is what can you do better than everyone else to make people travel to your wall

Ok.

But why?

What are the other walls doing wrong?

Have you tried talking to the management about it?

As a wall owner, I know that getting feed back is like getting blood from a stone.
You tend to hear it third hand, "So and So told thingy that wotsisname said the last Purple set was shite and there was a kid in the building and it really pissed them off and...."

Email the management.

If they have any sense they'll listen to their customers.

[Oldmanmatt]

Actually, as an addendum and word of warning to prospective wall developers everywhere...

There are as many opinions on how a wall should be run as there are people who use walls.

You will never make everyone happy.

[moose]

Actually, as an addendum and word of warning to prospective wall developers everywhere...
There are as many opinions on how a wall should be run as there are people who use walls.
You will never make everyone happy.

True - personally, for me it's mainly about the climbing - my preference is for steep and crimpy.  My ideal bouldering wall would just be a massive series of 20-55 degree boards, set with overlapping circuits of problems in overlapping grade ranges, with a rolling programme of regular resets (each circuit replaced monthly at the minimum).  I don't care about plush changing rooms, availability of coffee filtered through civet cat's bowels, or a choice of gluten-free snack-foods.  Though a friendly atmosphere, good lighting, and somewhere comfortable and warm to chill during rest breaks is nice.  Problem with appeasing someone like me though is that you would go bankrupt  - no kids parties, beginners, or any non-misers with a love of treating themselves would ever come!

[i.munro]

My nearest wall is 1mile from my house and never go there
My next nearest wall is 2miles from where I work 5 from where I live I rarely go there.

   

Basically the same deal here. Two new-ish walls within 20 mins of my home and two others within an hour.
Currently doing an hour and a half each way round-trip twice a week.

[GraemeA]

Just a few things we would like to know;
How far would you travel to try out a new wall ?
depends how good the wall is
Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places?
No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing)
how many times a week do you climb?
indoors twice, outdoors once-twice
any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading  

From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.

Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.

Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems

I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls.  I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.

I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.

I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.

I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.

I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that

Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert

[SA Chris]

Both the residents of that region said they'd rather climb outdoors, but one of the sheep seemed keen...

  Point taken!

But Aberdeen has a long tradition of climbing, a population of ~220,000 and only 1 "proper" wall (which is good, but has limited bouldering). The nearest alternatives are Dundee (~1 hr), Inverness (2+ hrs) and I reckon the nearest decent bouldering wall is TCA in Glasgow (~3 hrs).

Aberdeen is the only wall I've seen recently operating a one-in-one-out system with people queuing in reception to get in. Having said that, warehouse space is probably prohibitively expensive due to the oil industry, so perhaps still not a great idea.

No shortage of keen "sheep" though!

At the current oil price, it may be going for a song soon! But I agree I think Aberdeen could do with a bouldering centre

[Jim]

My nearest wall is 1mile from my house and never go there
My next nearest wall is 2miles from where I work 5 from where I live I rarely go there.

I usually drive about 20miles away to the depot because I prefer it.
I also travel to the works on occassion which takes almost an hour each way.

I would rather travel to a good wall than settle for a close one 10miles is not that far really.

The question you need to ask is what can you do better than everyone else to make people travel to your wall

Wow I wish I had the spare time to make those sort of choices.

Lukily I am equidistant between 2 climbing walls, Stockport & roperace and choose to go to stockport for a number of reasons:
1 its cheaper (for bouldering)
2 I prefer it for bouldering and
3 I know people who climb at Stockport
however I do go to roperace very occasionally for a change.
At the moment I'm trying to get back into climbing and so am making an extra special effort to try and go once a week.

[Grubes]

Hi Matt
The nearest one is a sports centre. They have little interest in the climbing and the building is about to shut.
They approached the uni club I some times help out with to bring them back to using that wall.
The uni club committee arranged to attend a meeting to discuss the issues on why they changed the wall they attend and the guy at the sports centre. When they arrived the guy they arranged to see had gone home already.
The same thing happened the next year so fuck um. The new sports centre opens in april I will try the new wall but depending on how it is run depends on whether I will keep attending (the fact one of the best pubs in the town is next door and the other two best pubs are 5 min walk away might help). I have no plans to approach them again is the wall is shit.

The other close one I wont name. I like the place and have been to a lot and still go occasionally. It is set up aimed very much at beginners.
I just don't like the feel of the place and it has too much stuff in a small area even though they have lots of space.
The wall is doing well at what it is aimed for but I prefer to go else where so I do.

Ok.

But why?

What are the other walls doing wrong?

Have you tried talking to the management about it?

As a wall owner, I know that getting feed back is like getting blood from a stone.
You tend to hear it third hand, "So and So told thingy that wotsisname said the last Purple set was shite and there was a kid in the building and it really pissed them off and...."

Email the management.

If they have any sense they'll listen to their customers.

I live in an area with an abundance of walls so I have plenty of choice. If I am not happy with one place I will just go to another wall because it is very easy to do so.

[tomtom]

Actually, as an addendum and word of warning to prospective wall developers everywhere...

There are as many opinions on how a wall should be run as there are people who use walls.

You will never make everyone happy.

I give feedback.. Normally when its something really easy/obvious that can be changed to make things much better. (ie theres not much point in suggesting they spend £200k on a new cafe etc..!)...

E.G. at Logport wall I have commented (unfavourably) when they moved to using tags to mark problems (rather than groups of colours) ~ I was not alone and this changed.. I've also said when I think there is a good - or a bad set. I think thats probably important for them to feedback to the setters..

At Hull wall I have (in the past) attempted to give feedback to the owner ~ but, in radio parlance, found he was generally set to transmit rather than receive.... I don't go there very often now (unsurprisingly..)

[smellyfox]

Both the residents of that region said they'd rather climb outdoors, but one of the sheep seemed keen...

  Point taken!

But Aberdeen has a long tradition of climbing, a population of ~220,000 and only 1 "proper" wall (which is good, but has limited bouldering). The nearest alternatives are Dundee (~1 hr), Inverness (2+ hrs) and I reckon the nearest decent bouldering wall is TCA in Glasgow (~3 hrs).

Aberdeen is the only wall I've seen recently operating a one-in-one-out system with people queuing in reception to get in. Having said that, warehouse space is probably prohibitively expensive due to the oil industry, so perhaps still not a great idea.

No shortage of keen "sheep" though!

At the current oil price, it may be going for a song soon! But I agree I think Aberdeen could do with a bouldering centre

What's wrong with the beach leasure centre Chris? 

  (this emoticon is probably appropriate to answer my own question)

[tim palmer]

Just a few things we would like to know;
How far would you travel to try out a new wall ?
depends how good the wall is
Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places?
No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing)
how many times a week do you climb?
indoors twice, outdoors once-twice
any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading  

From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.

Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.

Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems

I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls.  I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.

I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.

I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.

I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.

I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that

Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert

Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?

[a dense loner]

Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?

[Oldmanmatt]

There are loads.
Plenty of people who never climb outside.
People who don't see much difference.
People who are just starting.
Plenty who just need to climb, but can't get outdoors until the weekend/they find a lift/the weather cooperates.
People who can't climb outdoors because their disability makes it to dangerous and they need an acre of mat to land on.
And on.
And on.
 And that's not counting the Scout/school/ A N Other group..

The training climbers probably account for less than 15% of wall users.

[slackline]

Just a few things we would like to know;
How far would you travel to try out a new wall ?
depends how good the wall is
Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places?
No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing)
how many times a week do you climb?
indoors twice, outdoors once-twice
any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading  

From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.

Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.

Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems

I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls.  I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.

I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.

I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.

I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.

I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that

Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert

Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?

Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?

[Sloper]

Just a few things we would like to know;
How far would you travel to try out a new wall ?
depends how good the wall is
Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places?
No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing)
how many times a week do you climb?
indoors twice, outdoors once-twice
any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading  

From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.

Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.

Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems

I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls.  I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.

I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.

I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.

I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.

I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that

Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert

Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?

Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?

Some Giza could probably do that

[ben]

  nice stripes..

[SA Chris]

What's wrong with the beach leasure centre Chris? 

  (this emoticon is probably appropriate to answer my own question)

Tris, it's worth going there once or twice, just to remind you what shit is.

[tim palmer]

There are loads.
Plenty of people who never climb outside.
People who don't see much difference.
People who are just starting.
Plenty who just need to climb, but can't get outdoors until the weekend/they find a lift/the weather cooperates.
People who can't climb outdoors because their disability makes it to dangerous and they need an acre of mat to land on.
And on.
And on.
 And that's not counting the Scout/school/ A N Other group..

The training climbers probably account for less than 15% of wall users.

But to me almost all of those categories are training, whether it be for general fitness or to keep your eye in for the occasional weekend day when it isn't pissing it down.   

[rich d]

Just a few things we would like to know;
How far would you travel to try out a new wall ?
depends how good the wall is
Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places?
No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing)
how many times a week do you climb?
indoors twice, outdoors once-twice
any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading  

From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.

Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.

Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems

I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls.  I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.

I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.

I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.

I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.

I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that

Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert

Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?

Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?

Some Giza could probably do that

First art deco thread on UKB.

[tomtom]

NSFW  :

Just a few things we would like to know;
How far would you travel to try out a new wall ?
depends how good the wall is
Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places?
No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing)
how many times a week do you climb?
indoors twice, outdoors once-twice
any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading  

From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.

Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.

Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems

I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls.  I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.

I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.

I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.

I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.

I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that

Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert

Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?

Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?

Some Giza could probably do that

First art deco thread on UKB.

[fatneck]

Potentially THE most random thread drift ever...