[kelvin]

so I should stop over thinking and just start trying hard.

Me too.

It's interesting to read the comments about tick-the-box training - I've managed to get away from social climbing lately but if I'm carrying a tweak like now, I tend to head to the wall 'just to do something'. This week I didn't and proper went for it on the campus rail and had a pretty good result and that was mainly down to 100% commitment and the intensity being there I guess. I need to focus more on intensity.

[Muenchener]

With regards to the terrain, I mean that if you have a small hill to try and get over, a skier and pole/herringbone for 20-50 feet, but on a board in powder, you're relegated to taking the board off, breaking it down into skis, and putting your skins on just to move 50ft.  It really sucks....  and the deeper the powder the worse it is.  Plus skiers don't think about it so partners can be a PITA.  Anyway totally off topic

I don't doubt for a second that skis are the only way to go if you actually want a tool for moving about in the mountains. Snowboards are purely toys, albeit rather fine toys. I've considered learning to ski and getting into touring down that road, but I'd have to go back to being a total beginner for several winters. Not that I'm any kind of good snowboarder, but I'm at least somewhat competent and able to get down the hill.

I did a powder course with a guide in Zillertal a few winters ago (I was the weakest in the group by far). He said he only snowboarded for years, but switched back to skis because, as he put it, modern skis are *nearly* as good as a snowboard in powder, and so much more practical in every other way.

[Sasquatch]

Could have sworn you'd said before that you alternated between fingerboard and bouldering and made gains over the years.

Yes/no.  I've tried a variety of things and seen different levels of progress at each one.  One of the biggest hurdles I have at the moment is evaluating the efficacy of my training over the last 3-4 years as I've blown a tendon in each of the last two (feb 2013 and mar 2014) and it takes about 6-8 months to get back to pre-injury status.  This means It's been hard to tell a difference as I can't actually tell if I've plateaued.  It also doesn't help that I am doing almost exclusively development and don't have a any good standards to compare myself to.

In the summers, of 2012 and 2013 I did 2 sessions of Max hangs and 1 bouldering session per week and saw consistent steady gains, but hit the same peak each summer (recovering from feb tendon).  This past summer I added campusing in and did 4wk max hangs followed by 4 wk campusing for two cycles.  This saw good gains and I realized the campusing really helped me engage on certain types of movement.  Then, this past fall I switched it up to doing the combo max hang/repeater WO's for 4 weeks followed by campusing for 4 weeks following a trip to squamish in August.  The first cycle ended with sends of three local projects all in the 8A-8B range.  The second ended with my Bishop trip, which had my first two 7C+ onsights, several 7C flashes, my first 8A in a day, and sending Mandala.  So far this has been the best results I've seen. 

My current goals are more route based, so I've taken out the max hangs from the FB, and added more sets-currently doing 3 sets of 5 grips.  I'm also trying to do solid aerocap sessions the day after so my goal is:
Day 1 - FB
Day 2 - Aerocap
Day 3 - Rest

I do 3&4 rep repeaters which seems to be more strength orientated than 6-7 which I find too long.  We'll see on the power phase, total pants at campussing so could be tricky.

I'd agree the 3-4rep repeaters would be much more strength based.  Another option would be barrows 5on/10off concept. 

If you're pants at campusing, that's an even better reason to do it.(assuming your back will let you) as you'll see the most gains from it

[nai]

When you say campusing for for weeks, is that one session per week combined with steep bouldering as per RCTM, or just campus sessions?

And when I say I'm rubbish, I really mean it (and don't quite understand why). On my homeboard (built for Foot-On work) I have medium (1") rungs and struggle to do 1-2-3. it's not an ideal setup for foot-off work, possibly not quite steep enough and not undercut but at the Works on their large (2 joint) rungs I could lock off between 1-4-7 (which defeats the purpose of the exercise somewhat) but anything smaller I was struggling.  Not sure there's any value in yarding on such big holds as those.  Looking for basic exercises I iust found this, is exercise #1 kind of like Barrows' 5-10 routine, could be worth trying late in the strength phase as prep for campusing.

[gme]

 so I should stop over thinking and just start trying hard.
[/quote]

Me too.

It's interesting to read the comments about tick-the-box training - I've managed to get away from social climbing lately but if I'm carrying a tweak like now, I tend to head to the wall 'just to do something'. This week I didn't and proper went for it on the campus rail and had a pretty good result and that was mainly down to 100% commitment and the intensity being there I guess. I need to focus more on intensity.
[/quote]

I think you have hit the nail on the head there. The idea of structured training, periodisation etc are all well and good but they have become the ruling factor in peoples training. Its great to have a plan but just sticking too it for the sake of ticking a box in the plan just seems stupid. A half arsed evening session hanging of the FB might look good on your monthly planner, and on here, but you would have been better chilling out with a glass of wine relaxing so your fired up for the next day to train properly. Sorry to those who took part, but i thought the sharkathon was a daft idea that served no purpose at all. You need to rest, mentally as well as physically. Dragging yourself out just to say you have done something is pointless.

It seems a lot on here are going through the motions in a lot of sessions. 3-4 good sessions a week putting 95-100% into them will see good improvements, if you can do all the other stuff on top with as much effort and enthusiasm then the rewards will be greater.

[abarro81]

+1 to most of gav's points

[shark]

 Sorry to those who took part, but i thought the sharkathon was a daft idea that served no purpose at all.

I give it a couple more year's and you'll be doing it too

[Fiend]

GME etc you missed the point that the Sharkathon was about some form of general exercise per day (which can include some very mild stuff that would count as active rest, if that), NOT about specific intensive climbing training per day.

[fried]

I thought it was just a fun thing to lose some Christmas lard.

[gme]

GME etc you missed the point that the Sharkathon was about some form of general exercise per day (which can include some very mild stuff that would count as active rest, if that), NOT about specific intensive climbing training per day.

I didn't miss the point at all. As stated the whole idea was to do something every day, but the focus was on every day rather than on the something. The tick was more important than what was ticked.

When you read the comments a lot of the time it was forced and very much going through the motions. I suggest that missing a few days and chilling with the family/girl/boy/wine/tv but then doing things properly with some effort would be much more beneficial.

[Schnell]

STG: get fit for Font at Easter, ie continue rehabbing fingers and don't get new injuries. I'm a bit reluctant to set grade goals for font but 7B in the forest would be satisfying

M. shoulders, reverse flies, shrugs etc. eve indoor strength session, doing 5 sec on 10 sec off x 4 on FB various holds. I'm going to try this for the next while as a 'strength/hypertrophy phase' before going back to max hangs. also did some moderate campusing.
T. shoulders, endurance indoor session, doing laps on circuit board, knackered and could probably have done without this session
W. shoulders
T. indoors again, similar to monday plus some projecting problems in 7A-B range
F. shouldrs
S. I was keen to get out but none of the usual partners were, the forecast was for f-f-freezing so I didn't want to head out on my own so indoors again. Not happy to be indoors so much but had a reasonable session in the end including catching up with a friend I hadn't seen in ages.
S. more shoulders

A reasonable week, I had a mild finger tweak on tuesday trying to sneak in an extra session when I might have rested but generally the fingers are getting better.

[Fiend]

GME, I got the impression that most people were trying to do their normal focused climbing training AND keeping going doing some form of supplementary exercise on the days off instead of drinking wine on those days, instead of just doing a load of random shit for the sharkathon tick - and that those who were doing the random shit were doing so because they couldn't fit in proper training due to time & injury etc. I may be wrong in which case shark can take over arguing the point 

[fried]

GME, I got the impression that most people were trying to do their normal focused climbing training AND keeping going doing some form of supplementary exercise on the days off instead of drinking wine on those days, instead of just doing a load of random shit for the sharkathon tick - and that those who were doing the random shit were doing so because they couldn't fit in proper training due to time & injury etc. I may be wrong in which case shark can take over arguing the point 

You are wrong! I was still drinking wine on days off.

[nik at work]

STG - trad projects
MTG - various turning 40 related things + 8c
LTG - 9a
BHAG - Bruderliebe

M - The 400. BM session +20kg.
T - The 400
W - The 400. BM session unweighted
T - The 400. An hour at the wall, flashed all the problems in this round of the boulder league, then some routes.
F - The 400. 40 mins swim, did a length underwater for the first time in, well ages...
S - The 400. A couple of hours outside on projects
S - The 400. A quick hour outside on projects

A reasonable week, been busy with kids, work, life so pleased to still keep things going. And to complete the Sharkathon. And on that subject...
I actually thought it was a worthwhile thing GME, not because what I did made me stronger or better at climbing or whatever. Just because it was a little personal challenge which I managed to tick (always nice) and it seemed like a decent way of blowing away the christmas cobwebs. Looking at my targets for this year, and given my location and bird-bans, trip dates, chosen routes I'm realistically not going to be getting on any key targets until summer, and the main event is going to be until Autumn, so a month at the start of the year giving myself a bit of a lightweight beasting doesn't seem like a terrible thing. Maybe if I lived in Sheff and aspired to ticking grit lines in the next couple of weeks then I could have done better things with my Jan, but I don't think there's anything massively wrong with the Sharkathon idea. Obviously it needs a sensible approach, it's one thing to try hard to do stuff but pushing into/through injury would be crazy. And from what I remember people did "fall off the wagon" for a day or two rather than head into that territory. Having said that, I'm in no rush to do any more press ups...
Having said all that, I totally agree with the "high quality, trying hard" being very important, and "just going through the motions" generally being a bit of a rubbish waste of time.

Sass you have become the advice-a-saurus, nice work fella

[Sasquatch]

Thanks!  I thought about the point of power club, what I've gotten out of UKB, and felt like this was a good place to give back. 

Besides- it helps all of us learn a little bit more so hopefully we all get something out of it.  myself included. 

[kelvin]

Thanks!  I thought about the point of power club, what I've gotten out of UKB, and felt like this was a good place to give back. 

Besides- it helps all of us learn a little bit more so hopefully we all get something out of it.  myself included.

Yeah SAS - try harder! Myself, nai and Gav all say so. Lucid Dreaming it is then ;-)

[Sasquatch]

When you say campusing for for weeks, is that one session per week combined with steep bouldering as per RCTM, or just campus sessions?

At this stage I'm following the RCTM structure of every other session, for a total of 5 campus workouts.  The cycles I did this past summer were a bit different.  They were more similar to my fingerboarding during the summer in that I can generally get outside once a week, so that is my #1 goal.  Then I'll try to get two other really good workouts during the week.  So most of the summer campusing was 2 campus and 1 outside boulder session per week.

The campus routine I've been using and will probably keep using is:
Warm-up - 5min easy traversing
5 min bar work - 3x(20sec hang, 5 pullups, 5 ankles to bar, resting 10-15 between each)
Boulder ladder - 2 x v0, 2x v1, 2x v2, 2x v3, 2x v4, 2x v5, 2x v6 (the goal is to do about 10-15 progressively harder boulder problems)
Campus WU1 - 2 x ladder up large rungs 2min rest in between
Minimum edge depth hang - 10 second hang, 2 minute rest
Campus WU2 - 2 x ladder up medium rungs 2min rest in between
Minimum edge depth hang - 10 second hang, 2 minute rest
Campus WU3 - 2 x ladder up small rungs 2min rest in between
Minimum edge depth hang - 10 second hang, 5 minute rest

Max Ladders 10-14 reps with 2:30 between each attempt
generally I start off with 1-3-5 each arm (2 reps), then 1-3-6 each arm (2 reps), then 1-4-6 each arm(2 reps), and if those are all successful, move on to attempting 1-4-7 each arm for 2-3 goes (4-6 reps total), then finish the last two reps with whatever I was last successful on. 

Doubles 4-6 reps with 2:30 between each attempt
Start of 1-2-3, then move to 1-3-5 which i can usually do once or twice then fail. 

And when I say I'm rubbish, I really mean it (and don't quite understand why). On my homeboard (built for Foot-On work) I have medium (1") rungs and struggle to do 1-2-3. it's not an ideal setup for foot-off work, possibly not quite steep enough and not undercut but at the Works on their large (2 joint) rungs I could lock off between 1-4-7 (which defeats the purpose of the exercise somewhat) but anything smaller I was struggling.  Not sure there's any value in yarding on such big holds as those.  Looking for basic exercises I iust found this, is exercise #1 kind of like Barrows' 5-10 routine, could be worth trying late in the strength phase as prep for campusing.

I really haven't explored why some people are so rubbish and others aren't when campusing, but it certainly varies widely amongst climbers.  A few questions:
How steep is your board?
Which rungs do you have? homemade or purchased?
Can you generate the upward momentum quickly enough?  do you "explode" upwards?
Do you struggle to latch the hold?
Do you struggle to move after latching the hold?

Each of the last three indicates different issues.

Since you can lock off 1-4-7 on big holds, it sounds like strength is not likely your issue.  More likely either technique or the latching.  Both of these are best learned simply by doing them.   There's a certain level of technique that goes into campusing, and it does take a bit of time to learn the technique.  Once you do you'll start to "feel" more natural campusing, which is a huge step. 

Oh, and I'd agree that you right that locking off 1-4-7 is not the goal of campus training.  I think campusing should be very dynamic. 

And I think the RCTM has a much better series of articles on campusing than the crux crush one. 

[Sasquatch]

Thanks!  I thought about the point of power club, what I've gotten out of UKB, and felt like this was a good place to give back. 

Besides- it helps all of us learn a little bit more so hopefully we all get something out of it.  myself included.

Yeah SAS - try harder! Myself, nai and Gav all say so. Lucid Dreaming it is then ;-)

Absolutely - Time to TRY HARD. after my nappy that is.....

Maybe not Lucid as it's a bit far away, but I've got a local v14/15 project thats quite aesthetic and crimpy  
Straight up the middle of this 45 degree wall.  All of the moves had been done at v12/13, but then a key hold broke.  Now it's much harder

[nai]

I really haven't explored why some people are so rubbish and others aren't when campusing, but it certainly varies widely amongst climbers.  A few questions:
How steep is your board?
Which rungs do you have? homemade or purchased?
Can you generate the upward momentum quickly enough?  do you "explode" upwards?
Do you struggle to latch the hold?
Do you struggle to move after latching the hold?

Each of the last three indicates different issues.

Cheers for the in-depth reply, been a while sincwe I've tried so can't quite recall the problem, think it's generating the upwards force and momentum. Anyway, I'll get through the fingerboarding phase and give it a go at the Works (my board is about 15 degrees, has Metolius rungs but a bit hemmed in and I have to start off my knees so that could be part of the probelm holding legs up) and come back with some definite issues.

And thanks to yours, gme's, kelvin's and habrich's input I have reread the RCTM chapter and opted to go with something more akin to their structure, no consecutive Fingerboarding days, some Aero and mileage, combined Repeaters and max hangs in a session.  Plenty of rest.

Bring. It. On.

[Sasquatch]

Cheers for the in-depth reply, been a while sincwe I've tried so can't quite recall the problem, think it's generating the upwards force and momentum.

Something you can add in after your FB work could be explosive pullups.  Using a bar if you've got it, or super easy to grab jugs, do 3 sets of 3-5ish clapping pullups. This will help develop the fast twitch explosive side of pulling you need to campus well.   Cut these out when you get to campusing, but they may help prep you for that dynamic pulling. 

And thanks to yours, gme's, kelvin's and habrich's input I have reread the RCTM chapter and opted to go with something more akin to their structure, no consecutive Fingerboarding days, some Aero and mileage, combined Repeaters and max hangs in a session.  Plenty of rest.

Bring. It. On.

Cheers, and hope it works for you.  work at 100% and rest at 100% will get you strong

Without a doubt I've seen really good gains over the last 4-5 years as I've moved into structured and planned training.  But I also popped two pulleys where i hadn't had a finger or climbing injury in 10+ years.  Both were the result of not enough rest.

[nai]

Like the explosive pullups idea, I've been doing standard pullups with extra weight added but they sound like an interesting alternative, will give them a go and if I don't break immediately aim to incorporate them into a weights routine after every other FB workout.

[tomtom]

Lowest in 20 years....!

[andy_e]

Nice try, you just took that photo at around quarter past ten yesterday.

[tomtom]

Nice try, you just took that photo at around quarter past ten yesterday.

So when did you last see a clock that measures time in st and lb?

[andy_e]

Whoops, accidental duplication.