[Will Hunt]

I have never undertaken any sort of serious training regime that has lasted more than a day before. Since starting climbing around 10 years ago now, I've just gone climbing lots, indoors and out. Since starting work, ability to do this has tailed off.

Looking at what I've done in the past year or two, it is apparent that I have a weakness developing (besides jamming) which I believe to be power and what I will call "core" for the sake of simplicity (yes, I know that this means hip extensors and flexors). For me, 'hard' means 7B+ - 7C at the moment. Crimpy, smeary, or technical wall climbs generally get done in a session or a number of tries. Roof problems either much longer or don't get done at all.

There is such a mountain of advice out there, much of it full of jargon or contradicting the other stuff, that I don't know where to start. My goals are to get some more power in the tank, improve the 'core', and - most importantly - not get injured from going from no training to a crazy regime too quickly.

The tools I have at my disposal are a Beastmaker 2000, a weekly visit to the Depot/Citybloc, and a thermarest for doing yoga type shizzle on. I'm quite time limited.

Is there one resource which I should read (Dave Mac's book/Gimme Kraft/whatever) that will introduce me to an effective training regime and, moreover, explain the principles of training to a complete beginner and explain the jargon? Does anybody have any set fingerboard routines that will address my shortcomings?

[jwi]

A friend of me (who is a very successful coach in the sense that he has coached climber who've gone from being talented on to do really really hard things) sent me a pdf with a 12 week program of core exercises to do on a balance ball. By week 4 I wasn't just humouring him any more. For bouldering indoors the added core strength made a difference in my ability.

If you want I can send you the pdf.

[Oldmanmatt]

There will be more qualified, hardcore, training boffins along in a moment.

However, as a "just getting started" coach, and with the very limited info gleaned from your post...

It's doesn't sound like finger strength is your main problem.

Not that you should neglect it, but the BM web site and/or their app will give you the best guidance there.

Core seems a more problematic area, at a guess, if you are struggling on roofs. 

I find we get better results from bar work (hanging off one, rather than propping one up..) than floor exercises.
If you can fix a pull up bar at home (rather than using the BM jugs, you don't want to slip off), securely; then L sits, progressing to windscreen wipers, are the way forward.

This is done in conjunction with the basic floor exercises (don't forget the dorsal raises).


You'll find loads of YouTube vids for technique.

Hanging off a bar doesn't do your gross power any harm either...

[tommytwotone]

Your last point in my general experience. Whenever I try to go any kind of "proper" training I just end up knacking my elbows.


I know his extremist views on his blog divide opinion, but I thought 9 out of 10 was a good read, in fact you're welcome to borrow my copy if you like. My takeaway from it was that for a "normal" person with a job, family etc etc then just "do more climbing" is probably the best advice.


One of the old OTE training articles has always stuck with me, IIRC it was a Jerry one about identifying and targeting weaknesses. There was a kind of wheel sector-y type diagram in it. When I am taking things relatively seriously I do tend to try and get out of my comfort zone and do the stuff I'm crap at (roofs for me too) and it does seem to work.

[tomtom]

if you're crap at overhanging stuff - train on more overhanging stuff :D

Being of similar build, I find steep (>30 deg) boards hit my weaknesses the most...

BM/fingerboard is good for finger strength (and some arm stuff if you can be arsed to do pull ups etc) but not really for the core. Nothing works the core for overhanging things like working overhangs on small holds!!

[dunnyg]

I'm the opposite of you will. I found getting to the point of being able to do (poor form) front levers, meant roofy grit moves felt easier, there are plenty of core excercises out there, but I found bar/beastmaker based ones felt most similar/useful. Leg raises/windscreen wipers/front lever progressions. I wouldnt under-estimate how much technique there is to learn on steep stuff too.  Steep boards, with poor feet, trying to keep feet on is one of the most relavent core excercises I have done.

I dont know where I got it from, but one thing thats good is; get on a steep board, start with high ish feet, and move them progressively down, untill you are at full stretch. Make sure the feet are bad. If your feet dont fall off, find some poorer foot holds.

Power wise, campusing is very very useful, but I find it really hard not to get niggles when using it, so haven't really used it as much as I would like. Big moves on steep boards is my other go to tactic, even if its eliminates down the wall. I havent discovered a way of training power on a fingerboard yet. Other option is lamp sessions at woodhouse...

Disclaimer: - currently lacking in both power and core

[Stubbs]

Get on the boards at City Bloc and Depot, will take about 7 or 8 sessions to get into the particularities of the board in which time you can work through the easier problems. Once you are up to speed have 4 or so projects per session once you are warm split your session in between these. Ideally you'll complete 1 or 2 per session and have a few to carry over.

Looking at the problems you have done your fingers seem to be strong enough for small grips, I think bigger moves in bigger holds on steeper ground and boards will pay serious dividends.

For bouldering I'm not sure you need to understand 'training' any further than identifying your weaknesses (which you have done) and working on them effectively. If I wanted to get better at sports climbing on the other hand I'd have to try and understand the Barrows document!

[nai]

Core seems a more problematic area, at a guess, if you are struggling on roofs. 

I find we get better results from bar work (hanging off one, rather than propping one up..) than floor exercises.
If you can fix a pull up bar at home (rather than using the BM jugs, you don't want to slip off), securely; then L sits, progressing to windscreen wipers, are the way forward.

Careful with this, I started doing it a lot and made rapid progress but borked my back.  During a subsequent visit to physio he got me to stretch my hamstrings until they pulled which was at about 70 degrees. So for the last 20 degrees I was engaging my back to complete the rep which, as I got better and ramped the volume up, eventually led to popping a disc out. Slight bend in the knees at the top of the rep would have helped.  As OMM says don't neglect the floor stuff, dishes, planks, etc.

Plus steep board, poor footholds, low feet on your wall visits

[Dexter]

my current favourite core excersise is a variation on leg raises.
Basically do a leg raise then lower and rotate the body 90 degrees to the right/ left (so you can see the wall) and do another raise (this then works obliques too). Then do another raise centrally and then one on the other side.

[Johnny Brown]

I don't know anything about training, but a thermarest won't be much use for yoga. A karrimat might do, but the proper ones aren't slippy, it makes it quite a bit harder if you're sliding around. Only a couple of fuck-alls in Decathlon.

[Muesli]

Deadlifts if you have access to the weights and a bar.

[cjsheps]

My advice RE training information would be to read something that includes a healthy dose of "holistic" training advice, about how to incorporate the scientific method into your training. The Rock Climber's Training Manual is seeming to do a good job so far in this respect.

Whatever you start doing, do it consistently without varying too much (or you'll lose any insight as to whether it worked or not). Record it, test yourself some time later and see if the training worked. Ammend it as required, and remember to let the body rest.

[Will Hunt]

Thanks all for your help. Great to receive so much advice so quickly.

A friend of me (who is a very successful coach in the sense that he has coached climber who've gone from being talented on to do really really hard things) sent me a pdf with a 12 week program of core exercises to do on a balance ball. By week 4 I wasn't just humouring him any more. For bouldering indoors the added core strength made a difference in my ability.

If you want I can send you the pdf.

Yes please! Will need to find a balance ball though!

There will be more qualified, hardcore, training boffins along in a moment.

However, as a "just getting started" coach, and with the very limited info gleaned from your post...

It's doesn't sound like finger strength is your main problem.

Not that you should neglect it, but the BM web site and/or their app will give you the best guidance there.

Core seems a more problematic area, at a guess, if you are struggling on roofs. 

I find we get better results from bar work (hanging off one, rather than propping one up..) than floor exercises.
If you can fix a pull up bar at home (rather than using the BM jugs, you don't want to slip off), securely; then L sits, progressing to windscreen wipers, are the way forward.

This is done in conjunction with the basic floor exercises (don't forget the dorsal raises).


You'll find loads of YouTube vids for technique.

Hanging off a bar doesn't do your gross power any harm either...

Thanks for that. I should have mentioned that the Beastmaker is mounted on a pull up bar, so I can do that. My skin is shafted from the weekend so I will look up some exercises and do some bar work tonight.

I know his extremist views on his blog divide opinion, but I thought 9 out of 10 was a good read, in fact you're welcome to borrow my copy if you like. My takeaway from it was that for a "normal" person with a job, family etc etc then just "do more climbing" is probably the best advice.

Ah, muchas gracias. I will take you up on that. Maybe meet at the Depot sometime or leave it under the counter? A friend sent me some advice on PM and he says the book is good but doesn't really help you formulate a structured programme. I reckon I can maybe have a stab at that if I can understand the basic principles.

Power wise, campusing is very very useful, but I find it really hard not to get niggles when using it, so haven't really used it as much as I would like.

Whenever I use a campus board my wrists feel weird. Not after, just during the exercise. I've avoided them like the plague! Maybe I will have to perservere as this seems to be what will get the power going.


Aside from those comments, the message seems to be to get on a steep board, so I will have to make the effort to get to the Depot more and adapt a session there to be in the back room as opposed to just doing lots of problems front-of-house.

[tomtom]

Aside from those comments, the message seems to be to get on a steep board, so I will have to make the effort to get to the Depot more and adapt a session there to be in the back room as opposed to just doing lots of problems front-of-house.

Yup - go to the wall to do stuff that you're shit at...

I hate, but spend a disproportionately long time, working shitty sit starts and rock overs because I find them hard... when I was trying to get Weedkiller I even (yes I know its sad, but true) did some stamina work... because I had none..

[Doylo]

Plus if you actually get into a particular board you may find it addictive and actually fun. And if you can have fun whilst training that's half the battle.

[Oldmanmatt]

Plus if you actually get into a particular board you may find it addictive and actually fun. And if you can have fun whilst training that's half the battle.

You are Lore and I claim my prize.

[thekettle]

I'd second the  comment that the Training For Rock Climbing Manual is probably the best book to give you a clear understanding of the physical aspects of training and how to structure it to suit your goals. I'm assuming you want to self-teach rather than hire a coach to sort you out.
The other more holistic thing to consider at the start of an increase in physical training is getting a biomechanical assessment from a specialist before you start. Usually called a Functional Movement Assessment or something similar (a good physio will do it). These are where you find out your hamstrings are too short, or you're standing/breathing/moving wrong before it manifests as a chronic injury. May well save your back/neck/shoulder/elbows from grief later on.

[Dolly]

Please can I get the balance ball pdf as well ?
Thanks

[a dense loner]

+2 pls

[nai]

I'd like it as well if possible, please

[nai]

You may opt to hit the weights at some point, this is worth a read if so. I always do sh press, bench press, inverted rows one armed now and the pushup/row, aka Renegade Rows, are an absolute killer.

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1515405

[Nibile]

Plus if you actually get into a particular board you may find it addictive and actually fun. And if you can have fun whilst training that's half the battle.

You are Lore and I claim my prize.

Great minds think alike, you know.

[mctrials23]

I would also love to take a look at that PDF on core training. Just injured a finger and need something to occupy me while it gets better.

[Dexter]

Is it possible to upload/link the PDF as it seems there's a large demand for it?

[jwi]

I am not sure about the legalities. I prefer to not put it up on a public forum, and I certainly don't wish a takedown-notice upon the admins.