[Bonjoy]

More than half of those voting on the other grade thread voted for 'We use so many grading systems no one has a clue!', clearly the UK needs to pick a system and stick to it. So which one do you think is the answer? At the end of the day people are going to have to lay their personal preferences aside and go with the majority if it's ever going to get sorted. It's been discussed ad-nauseum already but I don't think it's been put to the vote before.So what's your flava, tell me what's your flava?

[dave]

http://ukbouldering.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=127

[Bonjoy]

 Before my time that dave. Still it should be interesting to see if opinion has changed any in the last two years.

[squeek]

I voted for International V because:

The difference between each grade is big enough to be significant, but not too big to be vauge (ie English Tech).

Font grades, although catering for easier grades in theory seemed to be bizarre in practise.

They're used in quite a few main guides and web sites, plus B grades -> V grades isn't too hard to work out.

Only problem with them is they don't cater for beginners very well.

I don't climb hard enough to have an opinion on V8+.

[Tim Heaton]

Voted for Font although wouldn't particularly mind between this and international V.

The only problem with the V grades is that they don't go low enough for most climbers with V0 being anything up to 5c technical - i.e. about the crux of an E1. Not only is this not very helpful when finding things to do with even fairly good route climbers but I don't think it really encourages people to want to improve. It's a bit shit if the hardest thing most people can climb is the easiest possible grade and has a 0 on the end, can't really brag about that.  

Don't understand the need for V8+, I think the V grades are an almost linear scale (may get a bit clumped together at the top but I don't climb this hard) and most importantly one grade is harder than the one below it. Don't see why they need to relate directly to Font grades, so what if V9 can be Font 7b+/7c, they are different grading systems and surely that's the point? If you want them to agree why don't you just use the Font grades themselves?

[dave]

once again i go for font. many reasons, but mainly cos like the vast majority of uk boulderers i've been to font several times, but never been to heuco or yosemite. makes sense to use this system, its close to us so we're more likely to be more inline with it. afterall for sport routes we use French grades, not 5.12c or whatever. despite what everyone says about font grades being wawck in the easier grades, that doesn't stop the rest of europe using them with absolutley no troubles.

having said that, i could live with V-grades, as long as its proper V-grades.

i can see where panton comes from with the V8+ thing, but the reasons that cause the perceived need for V8+ are the same reasons we should use font grades.

thing is, to many boulderers in the UK, fontainebleau is the touchstone - we all love it, we go there to measure ourselves against the only place where the grades are most heavily scrutinised, and a lot of our "most sought after" projects and problems are there, and the place holds a special place to most of us who've ever been there. For these reasons font will be etched onto the subconcious of a lot of us, we can't escape it, and thats we'll never shake away font grades, even if we try to use V-grades. afterall if the highlight of your climbing year is going to france, all that hard training and planning, watching the videos, getting beta to get that elusive 7a or 7c in the bag, who the hell is seriously going to say they can think straight in Vs for the rest of the year? its madness.

like the Cat said in red dwarf:

"I could go with Betty,...... but I'd be thinking of Wilma"

[grimer]

V grades were used in the Staffs guide. These are probably Staffs V grades, as there is no V8+, and the lower grades are probably a bit more generous than Yosemite ones. However, having said that, people like Percy, Justin Critch, Sam Whittaker were involved, and even Pantontino used the same grades in his ramshaw stoneCirckles, suggesting he didn't find them so far out.

Surely what is most important is a consensus in the Uk at least, and if that comes along with a system that 'works' in the lower grades, then all the better.

[Bubba]

International V

Why not Font?
- All of the current guidebooks and the majority of bouldering websites either use V grades or B grades. Why use Font grades when none of our guidebooks do?
- Ok, so we're near to Font but that's about it.
- Where else uses Font anyway? US, Canada, NZ, Oz all use V.

Why not V8+ ?
- I used to like the idea of V8+ but believe that we'll just end up with another proprietry grading system like B grades, which haven't worked very well. I'd prefer to seen something that brings us into line with the rest of the world.

[Big Frank]

International V

Why not Font?
- All of the current guidebooks and the majority of bouldering websites either use V grades or B grades. Why use Font grades when none of our guidebooks do?
- Ok, so we're near to Font but that's about it.
- Where else uses Font anyway? US, Canada, NZ, Oz all use V.

Why not V8+ ?
- I used to like the idea of V8+ but believe that we'll just end up with another proprietry grading system like B grades, which haven't worked very well. I'd prefer to seen something that brings us into line with the rest of the world.

Ditto :clapclap:

[Bubba]

For the record, ukb is going to be international V's from now on, but with a proper conversion chart for the Fontophiles. B grades will never be given for anything ever. They're dead.

[AndyR]

B grades will never be given for anything ever. They're dead.

Amen to that!

I'm for International Vs as well.

Simply don't see the point of v8+.....they're different grading scales, I don't see why they should match up?

[dave]

- Ok, so we're near to Font but that's about it..

i suppose you're right, afterall its pretty much an tiny insignificant backwater where no-one ever goes anyway.

[Bubba]

I get your points about Font but not everyone visits Font very much, if at all.

Even if everyone decided to go Font, then what?

- Wales guide is V
- Yorkshire guide is V
- Staffs guide is V
- Javu is V
- Yorkshiregrit is V
- Lakesbloc is V
- The northern guides (from smartboys can't remember name) are V
- etc, etc

Do you think they're all going to suddenly change/regrade and republish everything? I just don't think it's practical.

Since we're 90% V we might as well carry on that way as at least people are getting used to it now.

[Johnny Brown]

As some of you know, there's a new peak guide out soon which will be entirely based on font grades. So those of you who don't understand them will soon have a solid reference.
I think they're the best choice anyway, for all the reasons dave mentioned.
Any scheme including V8+ is just an attempt to bring v grades in line with font grades anyway. Could it be a coincidence that this grade represents the originator's limit ??  :wink:  :shock:

[Bubba]

Yes, but it's a very selective guide and this sort of thing is unlikely to ever happen outside of the Peak, where most of the Fontophiles seem to gather for some reason.

If everywhere else was already Font then I'd stick to that.  I don't care what the grading system is so long as we can end up with something common for the whole UK. B grades might have worked if the Peak / Northumberland ones made any sense and matched each other, but they were just a disaster (Sorry Al !)

[squeek]

Also most walls I've been to use V-grades, and although this shouldn't matter, it does familarise people with the system.  V grades also go up in whole numbers, which is better (IMHO) than having number, letters and symbols.

[Bonjoy]

My personal preference is for font grades for similair reasons to those already stated. However I have voted for international V grades because i'd really like to see the UK choose one grade scale and stick to it and I think (for the reasons given by Bubba) that V offer the best hope of this. The current situation is ridiculous and if taking the pain and accepting my second preference gradewise is the price that has to be paid to sort it out, then so be it.
 As for V8+ I can't see any reason to adopt it whatsoever. If you want grades to match up with font, then use font. What's the point of V grades that are compatible with font grades, but not with foreign V grades?! IF YOU WANT V8+ CHOOSE FONT BECAUSE IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME BUT WITHOUT THE AMERICAN PAINTJOB.

[a dense loner]

ukb is going to be international V's from now on

what does this mean exactly?

Wales guide is V
- Yorkshire guide is V
- Staffs guide is V
- Javu is V
- Yorkshiregrit is V
- The northern guides (from smartboys can't remember name) are V

as an example, tierdrop V5, what get real. i don't know one person who would say tierdrop is V5. it correlates to V5 yes, but no one would say it's V5.
so what if all these use V everybody i know who has just done a V9 will say easy 7c, hard 7c, never 7c. they will not say i've just done a V9, ever.
the magical grade is 8a, it's not V11. V grades are used in the U.S n australia. font are used in europe, remember europe it's a pretty big place, n south africa. we live in europe btw.
if i wanted everything in one place i would move to the states n become an obese automaton.

[Bubba]

ukb is going to be international V's from now on

what does this mean exactly?

It means that anyone talking about v8+ or Font grades will be banned. But seriously, it means that it will be the site's "official" system, so everything in the databases will use V's, etc, etc.

Eg - the Peak Graded list and the voting system will be in V, not Font.

[a dense loner]

oh ok, thought you were tryna take our right to free speech :wink:

Yes, but it's a very selective guide and this sort of thing is unlikely to ever happen outside of the Peak

thank god for southby. V grades my arse :shock:

[Johnny Brown]

Eg - the Peak Graded list and the voting system will be in V, not Font.

ooh... well you can do the job of converting it all then :wink:
Font grades work on grit better than any other system. Hence they will always be used. Grit (particularly peak) is THE reference area by which other uk areas are measured, just as we measure the uk against font. And as dense points out, we are in Europe, not the US. I didn't notice much mention of v-grades in the recent Gaskins-bock debate. Font grades won't go away, and they work better. Current guides only use V cos its a hangover from the attempt to create B-grades. But they still don't work so well, hence V8+. We don't need V8+ any more than we need E0 :roll:

[Bubba]

I could get the forum to convert 7a to V6, etc, etc and that way, nobody could ever mention nasty Font grades again.

[a dense loner]

the priviledge of power.
 

[Bubba]

I'm happy to do the conversions, but don't blame me if they're wrong....not that anyone will know  

Some people will always want to use Font coz that's what they're stuck on, but it doesn't mean it's the best system for the Uk as a whole.

Even if the Peak went to Font, I can't see the rest of the country following suit. Some of these places have been using V-grades for years now, why should they change?

[squeek]

Font grades seem to be used by people quite a bit, on this forum etc, but nearly always over 7a, and probably more so than V grades at 7c and above.  I convert Font grades to V grades in my head when people talk about them   :roll: .