[Pantontino]

The fact is that Bock should have contacted John directly, and he should have done more indepth research on John's reputation in the UK climbing scene, before he decided to blow this rancid mess up in public.

[squeek]

not one person on this forum can say that kroolis isn't making sense from his (frankenjura) point of view...., n couldn't distinguish between kaizen n the 8a to the left. what would we be sayin, we'd be sayin we don't believe bockstar.

All kroolis' points were very similar to Bock's and john answered them on 8a.nu, he didn't think the climb either the 7c or the 8-whatever he climbed a line inbetween them both using holds from both.

the route thing is strange, how many of us would have believed this of anyone else?.

If someone else climbing this hard, who has a track record for being honest would have done it I would have belived them eg, Tim C, Malc S, as there's no reason not to.

you can argue over this any way you like, depending on what mood you were in. without credible witnesses or unedited video it just goes on belief like it always has and then you get crag rumour.

Or you get no work done!   :wink:   This is old ground and kroolis is not saying anything that hasn't already been said on other forums/this thread or bringing any new information, just an opposing point of view.

[Nigel]

What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique...

To put you right, John made the first ascent of Violent New Breed 9a+ on June 21st, *before* coming to the Frankenjura. So your point becomes worthless.

I don't know why you are bringing up the issue of VNB, but I'll give you a few facts:

John's belaying arrangement was not "strange", it was perfectly sensible way of doing this route without a belayer. It only has 2 bolts, you tie off the rope to the first one (leaving enough slack to reach the top). Tied on, you climb unprotected the very easy lower wall (3/4 metres) to the first bolt, from here you can reach up and clip the slack through the second bolt from a good hold, now execute a 4 move V15 in safety.

The fact that John had no belayer is not too surprising as he generally climbs his harder problems between 5 and 8 in the morning. You try getting a belayer for these times! Also he had tried VNB on approaching 100 days or something daft, so finding a way of climbing it alone makes sense. It also makes it very unlikely that he would lie; if he was going to lie about it I would have thought he'd have done it sooner!

[a dense loner]

the route thing is strange, how many of us would have believed this of anyone else?.

that was a take on his eccentricity :wink: