[Bubba]

Yeah thanks for getting in touch with John and setting the record straight Si.

[Johnny Brown]

hmmm... details do make it look a little different. The whole thing might have been avoided had there been a little less rush to go public. Whther rumours might have persisted is another matter...

As for being on the receiving end of such an attack, I'd like to think I'd find it highly amusing. I'll admit that's easy for me to say as its not gonna happen - I don't climb hard enough for anyone to care, and very rarely alone.

[tc]

So I see Dave Graham has just done New Base Line @ Magic Wood in 2 days and no one got all Bocky about it  :twisted: I fucking hate all this big ego shite

[ian h]

on the plus side it is really nice to see j g getting the support he undoubtedly deserves from all in the uk.

[a dense loner]

and no one got all Bocky about it

like that one tc, that'll be comin out a bit this winter in banter  :D

[kroolis]

I look forward to the grovelling apology from Bock.

More shameful, jealous nonsense - what is happening to climbing culture?

I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one? Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure, also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day without working on it: Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone? Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D

[kroolis]

how fast the man nailed the problems makes you wonder if all his probs in the uk are FAR harder than he has said.
what an effort.
it is sad to read the response to his sends. he is right where he says that he has never tried to build a reputation for himself. if anything it appears that he tries his hardest to keep himself to himself.

wait till he nails action direct, then he will be laughing.

he will never nail action or if he does then alone without belayer as his recent 9a+  

[Nigel]

Are you taking the piss?

[dave]

I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one? Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure, also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day without working on it: Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone? Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D

I'm listening to you, but all i can hear is "mwar mwar mwar mwar sour grapes sour grapes sour grapes boo hoo hoo". :cry:  :crying:

 :nopity:

[kroolis]

I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one? Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure, also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day without working on it: Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone? Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D

I'm listening to you, but all i can hear is "mwar mwar mwar mwar sour grapes sour grapes sour grapes boo hoo hoo". :cry:  :crying:

 :nopity:

Poor You, c'mon admit that recent Gaskins climbs are strange, no belayers etc, british ethic???

[dave]

Poor You, c'mon admit that recent Gaskins climbs are strange, no belayers etc, british ethic???

as far as i know, he's only done that once. if you can let us know of any other "recent Gaskins climbs" that are strange. sounds to me like a throwaway comment that you can't back up.

[squeek]

I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one?

He didn't climb the 7c problem though.

Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure,  

Or you didn't think it was worth working, you wanted to do other things, etc...

also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day

Even after you've been climbing for 8 hours or so?  

Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone?

Do you know what the problem's like and how he actually belayed himself? It's not that strange.

Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D

He didn't send the details in.


Seems to me you've been reading too many Forums and not enough facts/information.   :roll:

[kroolis]

Poor You, c'mon admit that recent Gaskins climbs are strange, no belayers etc, british ethic???

as far as i know, he's only done that once. if you can let us know of any other "recent Gaskins climbs" that are strange. sounds to me like a throwaway comment that you can't back up.

#
What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless You have noone to climb with (poor You) or want to finish career with a spectacular effort.( h admited that he wants to focus on something else now, carreer, its on 8a site)

[Dave Flanagan]

Do you know what the problem's like and how he actually belayed himself? It's not that strange.

How did he belay himself?

[dobbin]

He tied the rope off to a bolt fed out nuff slack to get to the top then he clipped the next runner as he went past. As he didn't fall off the system was never tested.

[kroolis]

I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one?

He didn't climb the 7c problem though.
Yeah now it turns out that it was something in the middle, well thats a new 8b then or not becouse if not then he still cannot see the diffrence between 8b font and something easier

Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure,  

Or you didn't think it was worth working, you wanted to do other things, etc... there is always such possibility but it was 8a font after all if he was so good on it it wouldnt take much

also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day

Even after you've been climbing for 8 hours or so? it wasnt that he was tired, he just couldnt reach it,  

Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone?

Do you know what the problem's like and how he actually belayed himself? It's not that strange. I repeat is it hard to find someone to belay after so much fuss in Franken, after all he is claiming the real top difficulty.

Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D

He didn't send the details in. You are right but then how did everyone know? it doesnt matter if You send the details or not You claim it and thats it.


Seems to me you've been reading too many Forums and not enough facts/information.   :roll:

Seems to me that You want Your hero and it doesnt matter at what cost, british vs rest of the world hurray

[dave]

What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless ......blah blah blah

now i understand what those words mean, but that sentence makes no sense.

as far as i can tell, he tied the rope off to the first bolt as presumable he had no-one to belay him that day and was obviously keen to get it done. its hardly surprising belayers aren't forthcoming, since he must have used up a fair few on the raven tor project. Kroolis is just trying to make an issue out of nothing, presumable as a half-assed dig back at him for some reason. unfortunatley it doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny or indeed make any sense.

[kroolis]

What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless ......blah blah blah

now i understand what those words mean, but that sentence makes no sense.

as far as i can tell, he tied the rope off to the first bolt as presumable he had no-one to belay hime that day and was obviosuly keen to get it done. its hardly surprising belayers aren't forthcoming, since he must have used a fair few on the raven tor project. Kroolis is jus trying to make an issues out of nothing, presumable  as a half-assed dig back at him for some reason. unfortunatley it doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny or indeed make any sense.

Sorry You feel that way, try reading again mayby I just belive Markus doubts not Gaskins explanations, why not.

[dave]

i still wanna know what this means:

What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless ......blah blah blah

[squeek]

Seems to me that You want Your hero and it doesnt matter at what cost, british vs rest of the world hurray

I'm very sorry for poking big holes in all your points.  I'm not bothered about a hero, or British verus World, etc..  I was just trying to point out the truths, but if you want to ignore these and just pretend it's personal then fair enough, but it doesn't exactly make for a good debate.  Are you going to say anything new, if not you might as well just post a link to a forum that's already got this shit on it.

[kroolis]

i still wanna know what this means:

What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless ......blah blah blah

That means if You claim the hardest route in UK You have to be absolutely honest and I do not see why not have a belayer, thats the first time I hear about this way, and if You don care dont claim it at all or climb it again with someone, thats what rouhling did with hugh, akira he just convinced someone although he doesnt seem to be bothered by publicity either.

[kroolis]

Seems to me that You want Your hero and it doesnt matter at what cost, british vs rest of the world hurray

I'm very sorry for poking big holes in all your points.  I'm not bothered about a hero, or British verus World, etc..  I was just trying to point out the truths, but if you want to ignore these and just pretend it's personal then fair enough, but it doesn't exactly make for a good debate.  Are you going to say anything new, if not you might as well just post a link to a forum that's already got this shit on it.

Just the last one was slightly personal after dave got personal with me, and the rest is genuine i think.

[dave]

That means if You claim the hardest route in UK You have to be absolutely honest and I do not see why not have a belayer, thats the first time I hear about this way,

as i've said already, if you wanna do something and you've not got a belay then you've no choice. maybe he wanted to get it done before he went on holiday or before it got warm? ever considered that? as for being honest, he didn't have to tell us he did it alone did he, he could have not mentioned it. thats honesty.

If you can show me where i've "got personal" then please do. You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that gaskins is regularly witnessed climbing very hard things, like pissing up hubble when working the 9a+/9b brandenburg gate project, and the 9a+ was a project of his for years. Theres absolutley no reason to treat the lack of a belayer as anything other than an amusing curiosity, unless you've got some kind of irrational dislike of him. theres no track record of gaskins being anything less than honest.

[Pantontino]

Kroolis, as you appear to have either not read, or understood any of the many points made in this debate, perhaps we should go back to basics:

Do you understand what the words 'respect' and 'trust' mean?

Respect is earned by demonstrating your character and your ability. John has done this time and time again, either on film or in front of other 'respected' witnesses. Thus John has respect.

Once you have respect, you are trusted.

I respect John and I can see that his explanation of how the events unfolded is entirely plausible.

Pretty simple really.

As for Bock's motives for trying to discredit and smear John's name, the only conclusion I can come to, is that he is jealous - an ugly human emotion, but a very common one.

[a dense loner]

not one person on this forum can say that kroolis isn't making sense from his (frankenjura) point of view. if bockstar came to the lakes n couldn't pull on to, for instance, ATHOIA while godskins was stood there givin him beta n then a couple of days later said he'd done it, n that he'd also done walk away when he first came over, n couldn't distinguish between kaizen n the 8a to the left. what would we be sayin, we'd be sayin we don't believe bockstar.
we know that godskins is mutant, it's no surprise that he couldn't pull any moves on gossip after 9 hours. i can't, myself, see what's so bad about not doing an 8a first go either. do the frankenjura boys know that godskins is not noted for his onsight ability? the route thing is strange, how many of us would have believed this of anyone else?
you can argue over this any way you like, depending on what mood you were in. without credible witnesses or unedited video it just goes on belief like it always has and then you get crag rumour.