[superfurrymonkey]

David Frost interviews Assange.
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=6036

[philo]

how long till the "official?" wikileaks forum is taken down?

http://www.support-julian-assange.com/forums/

[slackline]

A piece of string 

[philo]

yes, but a piece of string is as twice as long as it is from the middle to the end. 

[slackline]

Julian Assange^TM 

[philo]

do you think he will "assange"

the word "assange" has become a verb: To assange, to disappear suddenly up one's own arse or ass eg "Before the Swedish police could apply their handcuffs, Julian assanged with a loud plopping sound, reappearing moments later in London."

[tomtom]

I think Silvio Berlisconi should trade mark 'bunga bunga'....

[Mike Highbury]

Keeping up with the Gallianos

www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/mar/01/julian-assange-jewish-conspiracy-comments

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Fuck it cunt.

Attempted to frame a reply along lines of "assange = 'demonstrably paranoid' but I am not qualified to say", but "they" ***ARE*** out to get him.

but.
<pissed> cannot typre </pissed>

Respond tomotrtrrow

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Fuck it cunt.

Attempted to frame a reply along lines of "assange = 'demonstrably paranoid' but I am not qualified to say", but "they" ***ARE*** out to get him.

but.
<pissed> cannot typre </pissed>

Respond tomotrtrrow

Clearly, there's a missing comma between "it" and the next word.


It was an expression of my own ineptptitude, not a response to the previous poster.

[tomtom]

I like tomotrtrrow though...

[Sloper]

Well it seems that Julian is about to come out of the embassy, or not, maybe it's just he's missing some media attention and this seems like a good way of getting some.

PS my view is that the investigation should proceed and he should be extradited to Sweden.

[psychomansam]

Well it seems that Julian is about to come out of the embassy, or not, maybe it's just he's missing some media attention and this seems like a good way of getting some.

PS my view is that the investigation should proceed and he should be extradited to Sweden.

Things I hate:

1. The underplaying and under-prosecution of rape.
2. Political intervention in the processes of justice.

1 says I agree with you, since the accusations should be dealt with properly. 2 says I don't, since the case was originally dropped. Let ambivalence ensue.

[Sloper]

A separate subject, but why do you say that there's an under prosecution of rape?  Why do you think that the first limb of the test for prosecution isn't properly applied? why do you conclude that the low conviction rate at trial is evidence of under prosecution rather than the opposite?

[Oldmanmatt]

Probably he's not being quite so specific. I would suspect Sam is referring to this sort of thing:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28860097

A large number of cases fall by the wayside due to lack of evidence and worse, because of inconsistencies in "First Disclosure". The latter annoys the mammary glands off me, as it usually boils down to a traumatised victim forgetting who they first told about the attack (complicated where it is a stranger and tricky when a friend (who may then embellish, to "support" a story)).

Too often it comes down to the victims word against the accused. A dark deed, carried out in dark places, without witnesses.

[psychomansam]

A separate subject, but why do you say that there's an under prosecution of rape?  Why do you think that the first limb of the test for prosecution isn't properly applied? why do you conclude that the low conviction rate at trial is evidence of under prosecution rather than the opposite?

Most rapes go unreported. Those that do get reported frequently aren't successfully prosecuted, thus feeding the cycle of not bothering to report them. I'm going to take it that you're playing devil's advocate, rather than seriously questioning those statements.

Prosecution is difficult. But we could do a lot more. Pro-active campaigns to encourage reporting and to educate women about what to do to preserve the evidence would be a good start. No, really, don't get in the shower. And I also strongly suspect that the approach the police take to reports of rape can be less than ideal. And have read as much. Call me crazy, but I think reports of rape should be dealt with as if they're half way between, say, ABH and murder. And that would require a much larger allocation of police resources and time than is currently provided.

And yes, what matt said, and there's lots more to be said, but I suspect you want to turn this into a totally inappropriate argument, so I'll leave it there.

[Sloper]

Probably he's not being quite so specific. I would suspect Sam is referring to this sort of thing:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28860097

A large number of cases fall by the wayside due to lack of evidence and worse, because of inconsistencies in "First Disclosure". The latter annoys the mammary glands off me, as it usually boils down to a traumatised victim forgetting who they first told about the attack (complicated where it is a stranger and tricky when a friend (who may then embellish, to "support" a story)).

Too often it comes down to the victims word against the accused. A dark deed, carried out in dark places, without witnesses.

The law and practice in respect of the first report, delay and so on has changed radically in the last five or so years and beyond recognition from only a generation or two ago when corroboration was required.

Prosecution of rape is, by its nature often going to be difficult, i.e if consent was given to a degree short of the penetration, when the defendant pleads reasonable but mistaken belief in consent where both parties are intoxicated and there is partial consent or consent to preliminary acts (i.e. jumping into bed together).

I don't think that any of this is properly characterised as under-prosecution: it is the prosecutor's job to decide whether there are reasonable prospects and in many cases the answer to this is in the negative: and even when it's not in many cases the jury acquits in short order. It cannot be right that we run rape cases to trial at enormous expense both financial and pyschological to the parties with a lower threshold just because the crime is viewed as particularly offensive.

Whether the police properly deal with complaints/reports of rape is another 

[Oldmanmatt]

The law and practice in respect of the first report, delay and so on has changed radically in the last five or so years and beyond recognition from only a generation or two ago when corroboration was required.



Whether the police properly deal with complaints/reports of rape is another 

Yes. However, I've had first hand on this within the last two years...

Handling by the police was excellent. Regular visits, updates, fitted panic alarms etc.

CPS?

More than 6 months for decision. Victim was informed, in writing, that case was dropped because first disclosure was to a stranger who could not be identified. Despite said stranger accompanying victim to a friends home. The friend then reporting to the police...

[Sloper]

A separate subject, but why do you say that there's an under prosecution of rape?  Why do you think that the first limb of the test for prosecution isn't properly applied? why do you conclude that the low conviction rate at trial is evidence of under prosecution rather than the opposite?

Most rapes go unreported. Those that do get reported frequently aren't successfully prosecuted, thus feeding the cycle of not bothering to report them. I'm going to take it that you're playing devil's advocate, rather than seriously questioning those statements.

Prosecution is difficult. But we could do a lot more. Pro-active campaigns to encourage reporting and to educate women about what to do to preserve the evidence would be a good start. No, really, don't get in the shower. And I also strongly suspect that the approach the police take to reports of rape can be less than ideal. And have read as much. Call me crazy, but I think reports of rape should be dealt with as if they're half way between, say, ABH and murder. And that would require a much larger allocation of police resources and time than is currently provided.

And yes, what matt said, and there's lots more to be said, but I suspect you want to turn this into a totally inappropriate argument, so I'll leave it there.

Sorry, but the thesis that most rapes go unreported is to be blunt bollocks.  A rape (and I hate to be a positivist here but I must) is only rape when there's finding of a Court there's been a rape.  There is a body of evidence which says that x number of people say they were raped but didn't make a formal complaint to the police, but this is very different to establishing that they were raped at all.

In terms of your glib statement that we could do a lote more to prosecute offenders, with all the respect I can muster you're talking absolute shite.  (I've been trained as an exhibits officer (note this is different to SOCO) and familair with the SOIT training and protocols). 

There's clearly a question of ensuring that people get proper advice on how to assist with securing and preserving evidence but I don't see that 'pro-active campaigns to educate women' (men a raped too and there's a body of thought that this is a taboo even within the gay "community") is really the answer.

As for your comment about rape being somewhere between ABH and murder, with this comment you demonstrate your ignorance to such a degree that little you say on this subject should be treated with any seriousness. ABH (s.47 OAPA) is capable of being dealt (and usually is, it is very rare to get a s.47 going to the Crown Court) with in the Magistrates Court  with a maximum sentence of 6 months (and will in most (almost all) but generally a non custodial sentence on conviction. ABH cases will have no CID involvement, no forensic evidence gathered. 

Rape is indictable only i.e. only triable in the Crown Court, has a maximum sentence of life and has a starting point of 5 years (range of 4-8 years) for the least serious cases of a single offence by a single offender. Almost all rape cases will be considered as Major Incidents, be investigated by CID with detailed forensic startegies, in the case of 'stranger' or other rapes with particular features they'll often be run via HOLMES incident room, the victim will have a liaison officer must as the deceased's family in a homicide with have a FLO, in fact in many ways rapes are investigated exactly the same as a homicide. In my experience rape enquiries are not limited by a lack of resources as you suggest that they are.

Is there more the police could do? I am sure that there is, is this a question of resources? I am not so sure.

You think that I want to turn this into an inappropriate argument?  The murky workings of your mind are beyond me.