[Monolith]

Amidst the frustration of not having it in me to undertake Jura this year after injury, I've been thinking hard about where I'm at and where I want to be in running terms. Naturally, the Bob Graham Round is on the hit list for many fell runners and it's been a source of immense interest for me over the past couple of years. Imminently, we're moving slightly eastwards towards Helsby and Frodsham and I know that however modest these slightly hilly areas are, they have acted as the training ground for a few past impressive long distance feats.

Turning 35 in October, I suppose I'm approaching my aerobic prime (or may have shot past it already some while back!?) and without family commitments for the next few years and a partner who is in for a marathon or two next year, I wonder whether 2019 will be as good a time as any in my life to have an effort on the BG. I'm finally learning to manage a slew of non ideal lower back issues (grade 1 spondylolisthesis and a bulging disc) through working with a brilliant physio and I'm sure with enough discipline to maintain a lifelong approach to strength and conditioning, I can keep these in check to some extent. Can't be any worse than Joss' problems!

Being a member of Bowland who have a very supportive culture with regards to BG and other rounds, there's plenty of opportunities to offer support and in turn, to receive it. I'm aware of the enormity of such an undertaking but as some of you may have seen, I'm not shy of endless repetitive stair running and other such modes of gaining ascent/descent.

I'd be interested to learn if any of you have completed a round and if so, to hear of your journeys. I know that if I'm in for this, it's a long hard road ahead. Shit, or get off the pot as they say.

[andy_e]

No help to offer other than saying fucking crush it beast.

[fatneck]

I reckon Maskell is keen...

[steveri]

Half a dozen MASSIVE days out in the hills, sort your nutrition and stock up on pig headedness. Bosh! I supported Leg 5 this weekend on a 22h round and was pleasantly surprised how gentle the pace was. (Leg 5 is by far the easiest leg and only has 3 tops, but you know). Just keep moving.

Be interesting to find out wouldn't it? 

[T_B]

Welsh 1km peaks is a good race, if brutal.

Oops - missed that write up - nice one. Sounds like a very decent time to me!

[T_B]

There's a great write up of Stuart Walker attempting a winter solo round. It sounds like a proper 'adventure'.
http://challengestu.blogspot.com/2018/01/tried-winter-bob-graham.html

[Monolith]

I reckon Maskell is keen...

Noted. Will drop John a line, thanks Si.

Half a dozen MASSIVE days out in the hills, sort your nutrition and stock up on pig headedness. Bosh! I supported Leg 5 this weekend on a 22h round and was pleasantly surprised how gentle the pace was. (Leg 5 is by far the easiest leg and only has 3 tops, but you know). Just keep moving.

Be interesting to find out wouldn't it? 

All sounding like a doddle there Steve! Looking forward to some more regular runs together soon. 

There's a great write up of Stuart Walker attempting a winter solo round. It sounds like a proper 'adventure'.
http://challengestu.blogspot.com/2018/01/tried-winter-bob-graham.html

Good link Tom, very much enjoyed that.

[duncan]

corniceman has done it. I helped out with the feeding and watering. He said a good sized support team made a crucial difference compared to his first, minimally-supported, attempt.

In theory the pace is not much more than a fast walk. You just have to keep going...

A quick perusal of the website suggests mean age of successful completers is late 30s.

If I were to chose a single non-climbing physical achievement, this would be it. It’s quite an experience even as a bystander.

[Brannock]

I failed on the BG a few years ago, so feel free to ignore this, felt really sick at the end of leg 1, threw up a few times and couldn't hold food down, got to Great end but ran out of energy. Had I been able to eat properly don't think I would have got round, hadn't done enough long runs. Also supported a friend on his round, running legs 2 and 5 with him, to be honest I found supporting more fun.

My main point would be you need to really want it. It hurts. It hurts a lot. Its also a big commitment of time.

Back to back 20 mile weekends are good, 20+ miles on Saturday, 20+ miles on Sunday.

If you are used to running in the evening, think about an evening start, its also less disruptive of sleep/digestion etc than the traditional midnight start. That said there is a lot of running in the dark, with a Sunto and a good gpx track its not to bad, also misses the group psyche of other teams (most weekends through the summer there will  be several groups out).

[Brannock]

Meant to add, it's a great thing to do, there is something magical about running over the Dodds as the sun rises/sets.

[ajh]

Also supported a friend on his round, running legs 2 and 5 with him, to be honest I found supporting more fun.

Supporting some rounds is a great idea, it'll really give you a feel for what it's like (especially if you're on one of the later legs trying to cajole a vomiting, exhausted runner over Gable) and gives you some recce runs into the bargain. I've done legs 3, 4 and 5 of the BGR and some of the Joss Naylor round in support and they've always been brilliant days out.

Training-wise, height and terrain probably trumps distance (which will come by itself). 10,000 m/week is the oft-quoted figure and the more of that you can do on rough/steep/boggy ground the better. The faster you are at covering this sort of terrain the more comfortable life will be - in theory (or in practice if you're Billy Bland!) you can walk the whole thing, in reality there's a lot of rough ground on legs 3 and 4 which slows you down enough that you have to do quite a bit of jogging wherever you can to keep to the schedule.

Most of the rounds I can think of that have failed have done so because of the weather - it may be better to have a smaller, more flexible support team so you can pick a day closer to the time to coincide with a weather window rather than being stuck setting out on a doomed enterprise into the teeth of a howling gale because your pacers couldn't go on any other day.

[SA Chris]

Something I'd love to do as a longer term project, shame it's so far away.

Even Ramsay round is a long way away, shame there isn't an Eastern Scottish mountains equivalent...

yet....

[fatneck]

That's the spirit Chris...

[JohnM]

[quoteI reckon Maskell is keen...][/quote]

I am/was keen and had been building up to it this year and did the first 3 stages individually with the plan to make an attempt sometime this month. However, that is definitely not going to happen now. As Brannock says it is a huge commitment of time to get the miles in. Earlier in the year I wasn't climbing much because of shoulder injury so I was happy to spend the weekend in the fells but now I am climbing again and that has taken over. I have really enjoyed doing the stages though but I realised it is not just about the running/hill fitness. Navigation was often a nightmare. Last time I got lost between Calf Crag and  Sergeant Man and was wandering around in about 30 m visibility above Pavey Ark by the end with really low moral! This kind of thing adds miles and time and often the ground is so heavy going!

In the next couple of week I will probably try and link the last 3 stages in a day from Dunmail to Keswick but don't know if I will ever be up to a proper attempt.

[SA Chris]

That's the spirit Chris...

Still in it's infancy, maybe when i really give up climbing, one day.

[Monolith]

Thanks for the contributions all. Some good food for thought and I'll decide either way once we're soon settled in the new gaff.My heart wants it 100%, as does my head. Just need a body to follow!

John, if you want to team up for a few legs, let me know. Would be nice to catch up and run together. 

Something I'd love to do as a longer term project, shame it's so far away.

Even Ramsay round is a long way away, shame there isn't an Eastern Scottish mountains equivalent...

yet....

I reckon you've plenty of local smaller hills to train in Chris. Get those young whippersnappers out on the bike alongside you if and when they're able!

I failed on the BG a few years ago, so feel free to ignore this, felt really sick at the end of leg 1, threw up a few times and couldn't hold food down, got to Great end but ran out of energy. Had I been able to eat properly don't think I would have got round, hadn't done enough long runs. Also supported a friend on his round, running legs 2 and 5 with him, to be honest I found supporting more fun.

My main point would be you need to really want it. It hurts. It hurts a lot. Its also a big commitment of time.

Back to back 20 mile weekends are good, 20+ miles on Saturday, 20+ miles on Sunday.

If you are used to running in the evening, think about an evening start, its also less disruptive of sleep/digestion etc than the traditional midnight start. That said there is a lot of running in the dark, with a Sunto and a good gpx track its not to bad, also misses the group psyche of other teams (most weekends through the summer there will  be several groups out).

Is the psyche still there Brannock? Very well done on your effort in any event. I'm sure it will have helped to put things in context at the very least. The old adage of the better drivers pass second time etc.!?

[Brannock]

Might give it another go at some point but not for a couple of years. Hopefully build a base of long runs and races if I do have another go, at the minute prefer climbing and short races.

As ajh said, supporting rounds is a great chance to see what it is like and learn the route. 

[Monolith]

Might give it another go at some point but not for a couple of years. Hopefully build a base of long runs and races if I do have another go, at the minute prefer climbing and short races.

As ajh said, supporting rounds is a great chance to see what it is like and learn the route.

Sounds like you just got a bit unlucky with your stomach issues very early on last time. Good luck for the next shift!

[Monolith]

Just a heads up for anybody else burning through multiple kit changes per week in the heat.

Start Fitness have got a decent sale on at the moment. Ordered three pairs of the Brooks Podium shorts for 7 quid a pop. They're split so can be a bit too risqué for some people. I prefer minimal fabric and think these are decent value: https://www.startfitness.co.uk/brooks-podium-mens-split-running-shorts-navy-b210024-410.html

[webbo]

Apparently a Ken Taylor? Of Rossendale age71 did the Bob Graham in 22 hours.
You lot need to get your acts together

[Fultonius]

Running advice and thoughts - I went for a run the other day up and back down a route I've done a few times. It's an out and back up a gentle climb then steep hill. 7 km in total

The first 3 km are a steady rise of 130m (4.8% to save you the maths) and I was averaging 5:37/km for that, which is a quite fast for me. It's then a trudge up another 80m in 400m (20%).

On the way back down I got a stitch on my right side, kind of where the bottom of my lung sticks out of my ribs. First time I've had that!

I've had a few suggestions of breathing control - is that what's required?

Also, I've had the worst doms I've ever had from running! Both legs, down the outside where the IT bands are, but running the whole length of my quads!  Strangely my knees were fine. I can still feel the DOMS now 4 days later!  Is this normal?/

[fatneck]

Apparently a Ken Taylor? Of Rossendale age71 did the Bob Graham in 22 hours

Legend! And Nicky Spinks (51) completed a double Ramsay yesterday!!!

Fultonius, I am far too much of a running numpty to be able to offer any advice although I have felt similarly after what I would consider a normal run for no apparent reason. Didn't involve a stitch mind. It is particularly hot at the moment though? 

[SA Chris]

Isn't a stitch normally associated with dehydration?

Re: DOMS are you doing any stretching after? Or at all? Foam rollering? The roller bar you get from decathlon is great for getting to thigh muscles.

[T_B]

I associate stitches with having not digested your dinner?

DOMS is a conditioning thing is it not? If you're talking quads, you need to run more downhills.

With respect to the Double Ramsey, I'm with Ally Beaven. Especially given the hyperbole and seeing fell running stray into the same realms of b*llocks you see written about mountaineering/polar travel in the media. Obvs it's a massive effort/impressive physical feat, but her sponsors seem to have conveniently moved the goalposts as she didn't do it within 48 hours. Sorry!

[steveri]

Apparently a Ken Taylor? Of Rossendale age71 did the Bob Graham in 22 hours.
You lot need to get your acts together

My mate Dave did leg 1 with him. I brought Dave home on 5 a few weeks ago. Dave is a very fit 40something that gets top 10 results and wins cross races. They both did 22h rounds. Makes Ken’s round all the more Impressive in my book! Oldest BGR by 3 years I think.