[reeve]

Hi all. For the first time in a couple of years I'm psyched to get back into some fell running this summer, so much so that I've booked myself onto a few runs already (might have been overly ambitious!) and keen to do some local ones in the Peak.

I'm interested in how others combine running and climbing. It's not something I've ever felt I've done well before. I'm very willing to put climbing on the back-burner for much of summer, but don't want to go backwards strength-wise. I've been thinking of finger-boarding a couple of times a week as a fairly low-energy investment but which will hopefully keep me from regressing at least. Really interested in others' thoughts regarding what kind of climbing or training combines well.

[T_B]

I'm interested in how others combine running and climbing. It's not something I've ever felt I've done well before. I'm very willing to put climbing on the back-burner for much of summer, but don't want to go backwards strength-wise. I've been thinking of finger-boarding a couple of times a week as a fairly low-energy investment but which will hopefully keep me from regressing at least. Really interested in others' thoughts regarding what kind of climbing or training combines well.

In my experience it comes down to a) time b) tiredness and c) stiffness.

Obviously it depends to what extent you want to commit to running, but here are a few thoughts (I am a punter fell runner, but am psyched to improve both my climbing and running)

1) Run easy. Harder running takes longer to recover from, will affect how hard you can train/climb afterwards and requires more attention in terms of stiffness (hamstrings are my main issue, as I boulder a lot - pulling in on steep boards can be just as bad as heelhooking).

2) Climb before running ideally, not the other way round (but accept that if you've been using your legs a lot or jumping off a lot, this will impact on your running).

3) When 2) is not always practical, bear in mind that running makes you tired! I’ve found doing deadhanging or bouldering at lunch time after a relatively short run to work quite tough. It almost feels like a mental thing. I prefer doing routes/circuits on the same days that I run.

4) Nutrition. I think you can get away without thinking too much about nutrition as a climber. Once you start doing a sport that requires a lot of fuel, it’s worth taking a bit more interest.

Overall, I think fell running and climbing combine really well, though upper body mass is clearly of little use to runners. That said, check out Ricky Lightfoot’s guns! https://www.instagram.com/p/BSNpEOij-qx/?taken-by=rickylightfoot&hl=en

[Stabbsy]

Mostly agree with what Tom said, although I find deadhanging OK in the evening after an easy lunchtime run (bouldering less so). I've also been experimenting with circuits at lunch then run in the evening. No conclusions yet as I only tried it this week for the first time.

I usually find running/racing after a climbing day works OK and don't think it impacts massively on my performance. I'd stand no chance doing it the other way round. My biggest issue last year was too many (and too long) races - basically I love racing, even though I'm not great at it. I did 30+ races over the year including some long stuff (20 miles plus) and I struggled to climb at a decent level at the same time. This year, I'm planning on reducing the number of races over the summer and avoiding the longer stuff, so I can focus a bit more on climbing. It might work or I might end up under performing at both sports for another year!

[reeve]

Nice one, thanks Tom and Stabbsy. Some food for thought, I'll digest it.

I'm completely naive to the nutrition side of running, any suggestions on a good place to read up on the basics?

[wintermute]

Just eat everything you can find basically.

[T_B]

I'm completely naive to the nutrition side of running, any suggestions on a good place to read up on the basics?

I've only read Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald. A mistake I made last year was eating more than I needed to really. Don't listen to wintermute unless you're running 100k a week and regularly winning races 

[Monolith]

Currently experiencing a bout of runner's knee in both knees and am resolving to address the problem rather than continuing through it as normal. I've read a lot of contradictory articles about doing squats,stretches, etc. One article was advocating avoiding any work on the quadriceps until the symptoms die down but others say to do them. I'd say it's been in the background for the past few months and is due to me being poorly conditioned as a whole. It's not painful to run on nor immediately afterwards and instead seems to feel a bit dull/stiff/clicky when sitting down.

I'm off to Japan for two weeks next week so I'll use this time to do some cross training and pilates exercises away from the lure of the hills. Does anybody have experience of coming back strong from this and if so, what did you find worked and perhaps didn't work?

Really hoping to get on top of it so that Ennerdale and Wasdale don't become wasted training efforts and dreams!

[ajh]

Never had runner's knee specifically but both knees packed in (for different reasons) last year, in both cases the fix was to ease back the mileage to whatever I could do without pain and to do a load of stretching/strengthening stuff (which I'm still doing) before slowly building the miles back up. It was pretty frustrating for a while, just going out and whenever I got to 3 or 4 miles having to stop running and walk back but it worked and they've been pain free for a few months now.

Have you seen a physio? Knees are complex beasts, you might find the prognosis isn't as bad as you think. Ennerdale is still two months away, that's loads of time to get fixed and fit again!

[SA Chris]

Have you seen a physio? Knees are complex beasts, you might find the prognosis isn't as bad as you think.

This. better to see a specialist than ask what is (essentially) a bunch of boulderers. Might be an easy fix.

[Brannock]

Patellofemoral pain syndrome? Had it quite a few times, squats are the only thing I've found that works. Generally found I can keep running through it with enough squats, cut down the mileage and less fast stuff/hills.

[Monolith]

Never had runner's knee specifically but both knees packed in (for different reasons) last year, in both cases the fix was to ease back the mileage to whatever I could do without pain and to do a load of stretching/strengthening stuff (which I'm still doing) before slowly building the miles back up. It was pretty frustrating for a while, just going out and whenever I got to 3 or 4 miles having to stop running and walk back but it worked and they've been pain free for a few months now.

Have you seen a physio? Knees are complex beasts, you might find the prognosis isn't as bad as you think. Ennerdale is still two months away, that's loads of time to get fixed and fit again!

I'll endeavor to seek advice asap, thanks ajh. I'm not experiencing pain as such so hopeful that it won't be a long drawn out recovery affair.

Patellofemoral pain syndrome? Had it quite a few times, squats are the only thing I've found that works. Generally found I can keep running through it with enough squats, cut down the mileage and less fast stuff/hills.

Interesting to hear that they've worked for you Brannock. In all honesty, the issue has reminded me that conditioning needs to be a core part of my training. Stupid really as I should know better.

[wintermute]

Ha, fair point Tom! I think (with no scientific backing) that its important not to try and diet in any way whilst increasing your mileage. I'll concede that thankfully it isn't really something I have to give much thought to though.

[SA Chris]

It thought for food though

[JulieM]

Feeling super stiff and massively sunburnt after yesterday's Coledale Horseshoe race. What a brilliant route and what a day for it!! My first race since December and my first ever AM and not only did I achieve my usual racing goal of not coming last, I also found myself overtaking a few people on the slog up Grisedale Pike!

Only downsides were some stomach cramp problems on all the descents unfortunately - not sure if it was related to a caffeine gel on the way up the first climb. The last downhill to the finish had me a little worried I might vomit! A bit disappointing to let myself down as descents are usually a strong point but I'll know for next time.

Anniversary Waltz next!!

[T_B]

Well done Julie, I thought it was incredibly tough, especially the final two sections of Grisedale Pike. It was my mate's first Lakeland fell race (he's Peak-based and a pretty decent runner) and he found it harder than expected. For me it was an interesting experiment having done so little ascent this year, but more running. I basically blew up by Coledale Hause having gone off too fast and pushed too hard up Grisedale to try and stay on sub two hour pace. I could barely move on the scramble up Eel Crag with my legs just full of lactic. I decided to take in the views and not be too down about how the wheels were falling off! I grew up in the Lakes but I've not been on the tops many times in such incredible clear conditions with zero wind. I've been to the Himalayas, Alaska etc but when it's like that the Lakes are unbeatable. I actually had a fall coming off Crag Hill due to jelly legs so had to calm down a bit, ran OK down the valley then was basically walking as soon as the path split before Barrow. Somehow I raced the last 1k and took the bum slide through one of those patches of bog, held onto my position though  . So yes, the take away message is you can't do Lakeland fell races without some climbing in your legs! I actually ran fast (for me) on the running sections, just let down on the ascents. Time to put some Kinder miles in!

[JulieM]

I definitely hadn't got enough climb in my legs in the run up to the race. Too much road running and not enough fells! But I did better than my usual position of 10th from last so I'm fairly happy - the mini mountain marathon the weekend before and my aborted attempt at the Langdale Horseshie the weekend before that must have gone some way to mitigate my flat winter running.

I'm impressed you got out to Reecastle afterwards! What did you climb? All I managed was sitting in the river at Braithwaite and eating ice cream.

[T_B]

Just did Rack finger flake finish later on after emptying the shelves at Booths. At least it's steep and more on your arms than your feet.

[Monolith]

Good work both of you! I had this pencilled in initially but couldn't make it in the end. Looks like you got a great day for it and nice job on putting some real effort in by the sound of it.

I'm not going to be around on the weekend of the Waltz/TWA and my entry on the latter is probably still available if anybody fancies it? I can find out if so. Recce'd the first part of TWA yesterday and I'd highly advise a recce of the transition between a few of the early checkpoints. Such an amazing course and the Waltz has to be one of the very best out there. Top tip is to keep a good pace on the road/track start and go hard for Robinson and Hindscarth; you'll have bagged a lot of the ascent and a lot of the tops are runnable. Enjoy!

[ajh]

I've been to the Himalayas, Alaska etc but when it's like that the Lakes are unbeatable.

 

What. A. Day. I can't remember the last time I got this sunburnt or had so much fun in the hills. I also thought I'd overdone it on Grisedale Pike; fortunately my legs woke up on the way down to Coledale Hause. I was desperately rubbing water from the damp rock on Crag Hill onto my face to try and cool down! Loved the descent from there - rocky and technical seems to be one of my strengths and for once it was nice not to have half the field stream past me on the way down. Barrow was awful - I was pretty much on my knees - there's only about two bloody contour rings to cross! The finish was just great although I only just stayed upright in those last couple of bogs! Straight down the hill for a lie down in the river. Brilliant.

Well done to everyone else who ran!

I'm not going to be around on the weekend of the Waltz/TWA

That's a shame, is this because of the knee injury or other life events taking priority?

[Fultonius]

Not really done much running since the autumn but got inspired by mates racing and the psyche on here, so just cycled 4 km on mum's shopper bike (all that I have available and I hate flat road running) to get to the start of what I hoped would be a good hilly circuit near my mum's. Ended up having the most continuous, fast (for me) and pain/niggle/weakness free run ever!  7.4km/190m ascent on a mix of farm track, sheep track, really rough cattle track (grim, boggy, ankle breaking) and lots of open grassy/heathery hillside in 51:33. All up and down with very little flat, really nice views and felt very unfamiliar despite being slap bang in the middle of where I grew up.  Really chuffed!


The good thing about being a total punter at something is the feeling of improving - those gains are much more incremental and hard won in climbing!

[Monolith]

I've been to the Himalayas, Alaska etc but when it's like that the Lakes are unbeatable.

 

What. A. Day. I can't remember the last time I got this sunburnt or had so much fun in the hills. I also thought I'd overdone it on Grisedale Pike; fortunately my legs woke up on the way down to Coledale Hause. I was desperately rubbing water from the damp rock on Crag Hill onto my face to try and cool down! Loved the descent from there - rocky and technical seems to be one of my strengths and for once it was nice not to have half the field stream past me on the way down. Barrow was awful - I was pretty much on my knees - there's only about two bloody contour rings to cross! The finish was just great although I only just stayed upright in those last couple of bogs! Straight down the hill for a lie down in the river. Brilliant.

Well done to everyone else who ran!

I'm not going to be around on the weekend of the Waltz/TWA

That's a shame, is this because of the knee injury or other life events taking priority?

Good effort on the race ajh! Jealous that you all got to enjoy such glorious conditions!

I'm now off to Japan for a few weeks so just gym work for me whilst there. Oddly, the knees are feeling a bit better after a couple of weeks of conditioning and even after a day out Sunday they're OK.

As an aside, I investigated the potential for some mountain running whilst in Japan but after reading this article, I was put off!: http://trailrunningjapan.blogspot.co.uk/p/trail-running-in-japan.html

Not really done much running since the autumn but got inspired by mates racing and the psyche on here, so just cycled 4 km on mum's shopper bike (all that I have available and I hate flat road running) to get to the start of what I hoped would be a good hilly circuit near my mum's. Ended up having the most continuous, fast (for me) and pain/niggle/weakness free run ever!  7.4km/190m ascent on a mix of farm track, sheep track, really rough cattle track (grim, boggy, ankle breaking) and lots of open grassy/heathery hillside in 51:33. All up and down with very little flat, really nice views and felt very unfamiliar despite being slap bang in the middle of where I grew up.  Really chuffed!


The good thing about being a total punter at something is the feeling of improving - those gains are much more incremental and hard won in climbing!

Nice work Fultonius,that sounds like a proper northern Hovis day out, keep it up. Can totally relate on the feeling of improving front.

[SA Chris]

Yup. I might have a shot at playing the harpsichord next.

[fatneck]

Did a bit of running up on Middleton Common over the Easter weekend. Not exactly fell running but it was boss - I even ran up some hills and shit and didn't die!

Assume yous have all seen this...?

[SA Chris]

Yeah, sod that. So far away from what I do as to be on a different planet.

[SA Chris]

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item/71031/from_everest_to_the_bob_graham_-_kilian_jornets_plans_for_2017

Interesting ambitions.