[SA Chris]

Cheers Galp. The grit may call louder though!

[T_B]

Nearly time for everybody's annual roundup of the year. Be good to hear how you all got on and about your designs on next year.

When the time comes, maybe a separate thread?

Best of Fell Running 2016:

- Short/local race
- Medium/Long race
- Mountain Marathon/Skyrace/XC/Relay/Big Day Out int hills
- Abroad
- Biggest bonk
- After-race cake/beer/prize

[steveri]

Watched a nice documentary about the Barkley Marathons last night. It's an almost unfinishable multi-loop challenge in Tennessee of around 100+ miles and 60,000', or 60 miles for the fun run. Carefully avoids being either too dudey or too portentous. SHAFF award winner, it's on Netflix and iTunes at the moment.

[galpinos]

Cheers Galp. The grit may call louder though!

There'd be a lift available for that too probably!

[Monolith]

Tour of Pendle looked brutal! Did anybody join in the antics this year?

[Mr_Cus]

Pretty pleased to get a place for grindleford gallop (thanks to the wife who entered it for me as I was still at work), anyone done this before?

Cant run or climb at the moment though, my SI joint is causing me loads of problems

[bigtuboflard]

I've recce'd the whole course but never raced it (ended up getting ill the week I was due to race). Its a nice course, lots of mixed terrain and all very runable (i.e. nothing too steep). The section from Baslow up to Baslow and Curbar edge at the end though is a bit of a slog.

Well done for getting a place though, sold out again in about an hour

[Oldmanmatt]

Ok.
Not exactly Fell running, but I figure if anyone can help, it's going to be one of you nutters.
I'm training for a little reunion and fun "get together" in South Wales next July.
For this party, I'm expected to carry ~22kg (+food and water) for 24km, climb 685mtrs, in 4 hours. Boots are a requirement.

This is where I'm at:







Today, I had to knock it on the head and withdraw, like a very feeble old man (more than normal) because I'm locking up with cramp.
So, what does everyone do to avoid/deal with cramps? Anyone got a magic bullet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[webbo]

The. Causes of cramp is not that well understood and often people go on about dehydration and electrolyte imbalance. However there is one school of thought which says you get cramp because you are asking muscles to do more than they are trained to do or pushing them to do it for longer.
So if you haven't been training to that level maybe that's your answer.

[SA Chris]

Agree often prescribed to electrolyte/dehydration/nutrition issues.

I really like the SiS hydration tabs  http://www.scienceinsport.com/uk/shop-sis/go-range/go-hydro-tablets?gclid=CP77zJrcw9ACFZEy0wodADMCrg or the stuff from tailwind http://www.tailwindnutrition.co.uk/category-16.html

Try and see what works.

[galpinos]

Agree often prescribed to electrolyte/dehydration/nutrition issues.

I really like the SiS hydration tabs  http://www.scienceinsport.com/uk/shop-sis/go-range/go-hydro-tablets?gclid=CP77zJrcw9ACFZEy0wodADMCrg or the stuff from tailwind http://www.tailwindnutrition.co.uk/category-16.html

Try and see what works.

Nuun are my brand of choice for hydration tabs. My wife swears by tonic for cramps (she likes tonic) but I believe the science on the amount of tonic water required to get the necessary dose of quinine is similar to that for Malaria.

[tomtom]

Agree often prescribed to electrolyte/dehydration/nutrition issues.

I really like the SiS hydration tabs  http://www.scienceinsport.com/uk/shop-sis/go-range/go-hydro-tablets?gclid=CP77zJrcw9ACFZEy0wodADMCrg or the stuff from tailwind http://www.tailwindnutrition.co.uk/category-16.html

Try and see what works.

I dont go running.. but I have a couple of boxes of these as one of our neighbours (recently retired sportsperson) gave me a load they'd been given.

They do nothing for me TBH. When I've been working outside in Australia and chugging 8+ l of water a day, I tried loads of gatorade/whatever powders in the water, and tbh I preferred water then having a load of salty crisps/peanuts and a can of lemonade at the end of the day. That seemed to make me feel better. The triathlete I sat next to on a flight back from the states said they were good for preventing hangovers (taken the night before) though..

[Oldmanmatt]

Yep, I've now been reading about the ambiguity of causes, the very real prospect that it's not electrolyte based and so probably no magic bullet in the offing.
I've built up to this point over several months, increasing distance and weight week by week. Never had a problem during the summer, despite profuse sweating.
I reached the 18 km point three weeks ago (3 laps of my circuit) and that's when the cramps went from irritating to crippling.
I got further than before, yesterday, but only 2 km more before I had to hobble the 2 km back to the car (walking across Dartmoor with perfectly straight, unbending, legs is most inconvenient).
It is probably just a matter of perseverance, but you always hope for some tidbit of inside knowledge that might short circuit the process.

I shall, however, be trying to up the electrolytes anyway and tweak when and what I eat/drink during the walk.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Fultonius]

I'm far, far from the best person to be answering this but, why are you running the actual target distance?  I thought most distance running plans aimed to have you doing mainly half distance ish stuff with only the odd longer run close to target distance at a steady pace. You're basically trying to do "race pace" at "race distance", are you not?

[i'm really only writing this to prompt someone knowledgeable to reply, as my training running plan of "go out and smash in 4 munros at a time is clearly titting bonkers]

P.S. when you say "withdraw" do you mean from that day's effort, or from the whole thing? Surely you've got a lot of time left to improve before July?

[webbo]

I would agree with this. Shorter faster than race pace and longer slower stuff.

[Monolith]

Just a reminder that entries opened for Jura this morning at 9am. I've registered and I'd suggest moving very swiftly if you'd like to get involved. No fee is payable at this point since it's only pre-selection.

http://www.artxraykishorn.co.uk/juraaspnet/entry_form.aspx

[webbo]

Watched a nice documentary about the Barkley Marathons last night. It's an almost unfinishable multi-loop challenge in Tennessee of around 100+ miles and 60,000', or 60 miles for the fun run. Carefully avoids being either too dudey or too portentous. SHAFF award winner, it's on Netflix and iTunes at the moment.

See previous page.

[Oldmanmatt]

I'm far, far from the best person to be answering this but, why are you running the actual target distance?  I thought most distance running plans aimed to have you doing mainly half distance ish stuff with only the odd longer run close to target distance at a steady pace. You're basically trying to do "race pace" at "race distance", are you not?

[i'm really only writing this to prompt someone knowledgeable to reply, as my training running plan of "go out and smash in 4 munros at a time is clearly titting bonkers]

P.S. when you say "withdraw" do you mean from that day's effort, or from the whole thing? Surely you've got a lot of time left to improve before July?

Withdraw from the day.

I'm not sensible enough to not be there in the first place.

I'd intended it as a trial run, with another around April.
It's my old routine of build up, go at it, rest a bit, start again.
My plan is to start higher on each training phase, so where I started the first phase with 6km and 10kg; I will start the next phase (next week after a 2 week furlough) at 12km and 15kg. Then build it to (hopefully) go to excess (say26km, 25kg) and try for the pace (6km/hr).

This is, essentially, the same course as the SAS/SBS selection do at the end of of their first week. They get a 4hr cut off (on the summer exercise).
Back in the day (and it was a source of pride), there were four groups (only, as far as I know) who did the Exercise High Walk, officially. As I said, the SBS/SAS on selection, there was "P" Company (new entrant Paras) and Royal Navy Artificers to qualify for their Hooks (Leading Artificer). We had to do several exercises over a 10/14 day period, including crawling through caves (the Churns? Name escapes me) and a squeeze called the (cheese press?), E&E etc and culminating in the Pen-Y-Fan run. All based out of Tal-y-bont, P company used Cwmgwidi.
The main difference being the time allowed for the run and we didn't carry a weapon. The SF fellas got the four hours, Baby Paras ((I think) got 6 and we got a leisurely 7, but had to do "evolutions" en route  (like map reading/identifying distant peaks etc or tying a knot) at the way points. We also only had to carry 30lb to the SF 45lb.

Anyway, some other ex's and I (from various regiments and branches) have put together a team to do the civi version, run by ex SF directing staff, next July.
Because we are all frightened old men, facing our twilight years and impending death, there is an inter team bet running  to see who can beat the SF times (which I didn't mention originally, 'cos it's just us being silly). The loads are as per SF, but that's set by the organisers not us. The actual cut off on the day is 8 hrs, but going by my progress that would be a doddle.

Anyway, boots are a requirement, which is part of my cramping problem. I need lighter boots than the Scarpa Cumbre's I used (I'm too cheap to have anything between mountain boots and approach shoes, but I will have to concede).
Any recommendations for good light/mid boots, greatly recieved.

One other thing...
And the reason for full, long winded, explanation.

To the person that accused me of being a Walt. (First off a Walt never served, the correct term is Bloat.), the above is verifiable. The Artificer no longer exists and P company (as I understand) stopped doing the Fan Dance 25 years ago (because it kills people).
Yes, we really did break into Cwmgwidi, too.


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[Monolith]

I'm far, far from the best person to be answering this but, why are you running the actual target distance?  I thought most distance running plans aimed to have you doing mainly half distance ish stuff with only the odd longer run close to target distance at a steady pace. You're basically trying to do "race pace" at "race distance", are you not?

[i'm really only writing this to prompt someone knowledgeable to reply, as my training running plan of "go out and smash in 4 munros at a time is clearly titting bonkers]

P.S. when you say "withdraw" do you mean from that day's effort, or from the whole thing? Surely you've got a lot of time left to improve before July?

Withdraw from the day.

I'm not sensible enough to not be there in the first place.

I'd intended it as a trial run, with another around April.
It's my old routine of build up, go at it, rest a bit, start again.
My plan is to start higher on each training phase, so where I started the first phase with 6km and 10kg; I will start the next phase (next week after a 2 week furlough) at 12km and 15kg. Then build it to (hopefully) go to excess (say26km, 25kg) and try for the pace (6km/hr).

This is, essentially, the same course as the SAS/SBS selection do at the end of of their first week. They get a 4hr cut off (on the summer exercise).
Back in the day (and it was a source of pride), there were four groups (only, as far as I know) who did the Exercise High Walk, officially. As I said, the SBS/SAS on selection, there was "P" Company (new entrant Paras) and Royal Navy Artificers to qualify for their Hooks (Leading Artificer). We had to do several exercises over a 10/14 day period, including crawling through caves (the Churns? Name escapes me) and a squeeze called the (cheese press?), E&E etc and culminating in the Pen-Y-Fan run. All based out of Tal-y-bont, P company used Cwmgwidi.
The main difference being the time allowed for the run and we didn't carry a weapon. The SF fellas got the four hours, Baby Paras ((I think) got 6 and we got a leisurely 7, but had to do "evolutions" en route  (like map reading/identifying distant peaks etc or tying a knot) at the way points. We also only had to carry 30lb to the SF 45lb.

Anyway, some other ex's and I (from various regiments and branches) have put together a team to do the civi version, run by ex SF directing staff, next July.
Because we are all frightened old men, facing our twilight years and impending death, there is an inter team bet running  to see who can beat the SF times (which I didn't mention originally, 'cos it's just us being silly). The loads are as per SF, but that's set by the organisers not us. The actual cut off on the day is 8 hrs, but going by my progress that would be a doddle.

Anyway, boots are a requirement, which is part of my cramping problem. I need lighter boots than the Scarpa Cumbre's I used (I'm too cheap to have anything between mountain boots and approach shoes, but I will have to concede).
Any recommendations for good light/mid boots, greatly recieved.

One other thing...
And the reason for full, long winded, explanation.

To the person that accused me of being a Walt. (First off a Walt never served, the correct term is Bloat.), the above is verifiable. The Artificer no longer exists and P company (as I understand) stopped doing the Fan Dance 25 years ago (because it kills people).
Yes, we really did break into Cwmgwidi, too.


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

I didn't understand a lot of this sorry OMM but I'm sure that you'll be grand. Can you do a few medium fell races beforehand with plenty of climbing in?

There's really no substitute for the gains that can be had from racing.

[Oldmanmatt]

I know.  Had some issues with someone who read things on here and added 2+2 and got 13, then decided to talk crap to someone else, who came to me. No idea who it was, poster or lurker. I wasn't sure how to handle that, so opted for a more detailed explanation. Which of course makes no sense to most people.

So, thank you for the advice, I now have a fair bit of reading to do and will be tweaking my approach.




All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[Stabbsy]

Anybody watched the Barkley Marathon on Netflicks. Puts trail running on another level.

Watched a nice documentary about the Barkley Marathons last night. It's an almost unfinishable multi-loop challenge in Tennessee of around 100+ miles and 60,000', or 60 miles for the fun run. Carefully avoids being either too dudey or too portentous. SHAFF award winner, it's on Netflix and iTunes at the moment.

See previous page.

Watched this last night - absolutely brilliant, I'd recommend to anyone. I've been having a think about doing a few ultras over the next few years with the Bob Graham as the long term goal, but this was something else.

[T_B]

Am thinking about plans/objectives for 2017 and beyond and wondering if folk who've participated in some of the Skyrunning style races can give me an idea of the route through to gaining enough experience/entry requirements for those?

The V3K Ultra looks as though it has the most lenient entry requirements that I've seen (2 races of at least 30Km with 50m of ascent in every Km) to then be able to enter e.g. Glen Coe Skyline/Lakes Ultra. I could gain entry for the V3K if I managed to complete some of the longer Lakes classic fell races next year. Any other races I'm missing? Basically what I'm looking for next year is races of around 30Km with 2000 - 3000m of ascent. I like the idea of doing a race with more technical ground, but in the UK this seems to only be incorporated into the longer Sky races? Maybe something like the Peris Horseshoe is as close as you can get to that style of race? Weird how it seems to have so few people enter it.

[dave]

Tom you should be gunning for the Cuillin traverse record.

[Monolith]

I know.  Had some issues with someone who read things on here and added 2+2 and got 13, then decided to talk crap to someone else, who came to me. No idea who it was, poster or lurker. I wasn't sure how to handle that, so opted for a more detailed explanation. Which of course makes no sense to most people.

So, thank you for the advice, I now have a fair bit of reading to do and will be tweaking my approach.




All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

Got you. Good luck with the training and keep us posted how the challenge preparation goes eh. It'll be immensely rewarding to tick off your challenge.

Am thinking about plans/objectives for 2017 and beyond and wondering if folk who've participated in some of the Skyrunning style races can give me an idea of the route through to gaining enough experience/entry requirements for those?

The V3K Ultra looks as though it has the most lenient entry requirements that I've seen (2 races of at least 30Km with 50m of ascent in every Km) to then be able to enter e.g. Glen Coe Skyline/Lakes Ultra. I could gain entry for the V3K if I managed to complete some of the longer Lakes classic fell races next year. Any other races I'm missing? Basically what I'm looking for next year is races of around 30Km with 2000 - 3000m of ascent. I like the idea of doing a race with more technical ground, but in the UK this seems to only be incorporated into the longer Sky races? Maybe something like the Peris Horseshoe is as close as you can get to that style of race? Weird how it seems to have so few people enter it.

I'm putting all of my efforts into Jura (if I get a place), Wasdale and Ennerdale next year Tom. If you fancy teaming up for a few of these longer races/recces, let me know. Just moved in to new office accommodation so can engage in some stairwell training sessions now we have a shower on site.

[T_B]

Cheers Tom, will keep it in mind. I'm planning to focus mainly on climbing in the first half of the year, so most races I'm looking at are from late July onwards. In terms of longer races currently thinking of Holme Moss re-match, Borrowdale and maybe Peris Horseshoe or even Ring of Steall. But that could all change with a finger injury/dicky knees/wife's business taking off!