[GraemeA]

That's a clever and incisive comment not missing the point entirely

And your point is exactly what?

You didn't seem very clear, you mentioned lots of things and ignored other things. Please be a bit more specific.

[GraemeA]

That's a clever and incisive comment not missing the point entirely

By the way, thanks for the compliment  Just noticed that you actually said that I did not miss the point. 

[wMickey]

To avoid future clashes why not make cliffhanger a world cup every year and do something different with the BBC? If you're going to go to all the bother of putting a tent up etc then you might as well go all out with it, would it be much of a percentage increase on the price? I'm sure the team would appreciate it! 

[Jaspersharpe]

That's a great idea. I'm sure there will be some reason why it's impossible.

[GraemeA]

That's a great idea. I'm sure there will be some reason why it's impossible.

I am sure you can guess the reason Jas.

The Works often pays a lot of bills for the Council, for people who aren't on the Council's payee list - it is a nightmare to get set up as a Supplier to the Council so as we are already on the list as a Supplier.

So we send a bill to SCC after every Cliffhnager. The bill includes all sorts of things from wall builders wages, to volunteers expenses, to food in isolation, to prize money (note for the BBC this is paid by BMC but for the World Cup it is around 15000€, for a BBC around £3000), to paint & rollers, Event Organiser fee (me) etc etc. Basically anything that it is easier to go out and buy instead of trying to get a behemoth to source it.

For 2011 this bill was something around £45000 (this does include route setting at something like £7000)

For 2013 this bill was something around £3500 (this doesn't include route setting which is something closer to £4000 I think - no IFSC Chief Route Setter at 2000€, and only 2 setting days not 3)

So already an extra £40k+

And that is ignoring things that are paid direct by the Council, extra AV stuff, the Calendar fee (3000€ in 2011), the Anti Doping, the webcasting (more for a WC as the price is averaged out for all IFSC comps across the world)

So think at least another £50k and that is before we add in the extra costs that the Event Organiser now has to pay to the IFSC.

But I wish we could have a WC every year

[Jaspersharpe]

So the council would have to shell out an extra £50k? Yeah I see the problem!

[mr__j5]

Having read all the issues of Summit that the BMC have produced for the last, at least, 5 years, it's not hard to draw the conclusion that they don't really give a toss about adult bouldering comps at any level.

The kids comps and things like leading ladder seem to get more advertising leading up to it and more coverage of the results than the BBCs and the BWCs.


I guess then this is a good reason to try and hold on to anybody else that is able to chuck some money towards running it.

[slackline]

Having read all the issues of Summit that the BMC have produced for the last, at least, 5 years, it's not hard to draw the conclusion that they don't really give a toss about adult bouldering comps at any level.

That seems slightly at odds with their support for "climbing" to be an Olympic sport (of which bouldering was one of the 'disciplines' wasn't it?).

[Jaspersharpe]

There's talking and there's actually doing something. "Giving support" is pretty easy on a keyboard.

[petejh]

Sounds like the bouldering competition format needs a Bernie Ecclestone character to fuck the BMC off if they really aren't putting the effort in (and the council) and make the BBC an entrepreneurial vehicle. Attract sponsorship money from outside climbing, source some TV money from channel 5 or something.

[Moo]

Mr Alderson ?

[Sloper]

Sounds like the bouldering competition format needs a Bernie Ecclestone character to fuck the BMC off if they really aren't putting the effort in (and the council) and make the BBC an entrepreneurial vehicle. Attract sponsorship money from outside climbing, source some TV money from channel 5 or something.

If Channel 5 were broadcasting they'd have to have Peter Andre on board.

More seriously I can't see how the BBC or even world cup events are commercially viable even if over-caffeinated sugary drink company were involved.

[Ru]

Sounds like the bouldering competition format needs a Bernie Ecclestone character to fuck the BMC off if they really aren't putting the effort in (and the council) and make the BBC an entrepreneurial vehicle. Attract sponsorship money from outside climbing, source some TV money from channel 5 or something.

Or something. People have been trying this without success for 25 years.

[petejh]

The world's a vastly different place to 25 years ago so there might be more chance of making something happen now. Attractive people doing relatively eye-catching movements in a perceived 'extreme' activity. With the right format and the right people pushing it could make niche viewing = lucrative for someone. Just thinking 'aloud'.

[a dense loner]

Watching climbing comps is just shit people need to accept that. Of the 3 climbers in our house one of us watches possibly 4 a year the others watch none since they've no interest. I was asked if I wanted to go to the works to watch it this time and my reply was I'm washing my hair, interestingly I haven't had hair for 20 yrs. I watched comps when ned was in them but more because he was a mate rather than I liked watching comps. Whatever people say the streaming is always log, some comps can't even focus on the climbers, they have shit bands on (what's all that about?), and the experience just leaves everybody that's in the same room as me saying "that was the shittest thing I've ever seen".
That's without getting onto the graves park situation which is always crap, yet the other location has always been good with a good turnout of spectators. Quite a few of which have no interest in the comp they've gone since they know they'll see people there that they haven't seen for a long time.

[petejh]

 Lolz

Have you considered yourself for the position of BMC competitions officer?

There's a hell of a lot of shit on tv that I'd never consider watching unless I got struck down with locked-in syndrome (even then), but there must be a market for it.

[Doylo]

You've got hair where it matters Dense

[Moo]

I can confirm doylos statement but nothing else.

[Jaspersharpe]

On his palms? He's not Welsh Doyle!

[Doylo]

Once upon a time I was with Dense having a spa session at the YMCA in El Paso, Texas. Standing there bollock naked he elected to put his T-Shirt on first. Need I say more. 

[GraemeA]

Watching climbing comps is just shit people need to accept that.

Do you like watching other forms of organised sport though Dense?

If you watched Grindelwald and you didn't get a teeny bit excited when Shauna was on P4 in the finals then you basically don't like watching organised sport. And fair enough. But Shauna in Grindelwald and Jerry at Leeds '89 was sporting drama of a high calibre.

Some of the shit that Dmitry does is just as good as good as Giggs's goal in the FA Cup semi final against Arsenal or Freddie running out Punter in the 2009 Ashes. It is sport. Fair enough that you prefer watching Pumping Iron on DVD but stop getting all UKC about things. Each to their own.

[a dense loner]

But it's not my own I'm talking about graham. If it was then I'd understand that it was just me. Your other points about what say dmitry does being compared to giggs is frankly quite ridiculous and if you really think that you've been in comps too long. You're involved in a big way in comps in a fledgling sport that makes no money, comparably, that most people involved in the sport don't care about so I can see how my statement might rankle. I have no doubt this will change in Britain especially if Shauna keeps winning but it will take time, and a better overall coverage package.

[rodma]

Watching climbing comps is just shit people need to accept that.

.Fair enough that you prefer watching Pumping Iron on DVD but stop getting all UKC about things. Each to their own.

I have no doubt this will change in Britain especially if Shauna keeps winning but it will take time, and a better overall coverage package.

Between you maybe you have the answer. We need a new docudrama about Shauna trying to retain the world cup for the sixth year on the trot, filled with training montages, made up anecdotes, pushy parents, lots of footage of people not eating etc. Perhaps "crunching plastic" would be a suitable name.

[Oldmanmatt]

But it's not my own I'm talking about graham. If it was then I'd understand that it was just me. Your other points about what say dmitry does being compared to giggs is frankly quite ridiculous and if you really think that you've been in comps too long. You're involved in a big way in comps in a fledgling sport that makes no money, comparably, that most people involved in the sport don't care about so I can see how my statement might rankle. I have no doubt this will change in Britain especially if Shauna keeps winning but it will take time, and a better overall coverage package.

I think you might have your finger on the pulse there Dense.

Problem being it's the wrong pulse.

There is a huge body, young and boulder obsessed and it's heart is beating louder each year.

Those of us who served our Apprenticeship in climbing in the 70's and 80's are still heavily influenced by trad/Joe B/Don W/ethics and macho anti-sport attitudes. We were Mavericks for clipping bolts or thinking Bouldering was anything other than a warmup. 

And we all probably still know a large number of pure trad die-hards and are influenced by them.

On the other hand.

70% of my clientele do not own a rope.

My staff are incapable of coiling the ropes we use to sling volumes etc and couldn't tie a knot to save their lives.


They and our clients, sit in the cafe watching re-runs of the comps on YouTube.

The tide is turning and turning fast.

[gme]

Matt i feel your comment about 70% of people not owning a rope is a major part of the problem.

Walls such as yours and Graeme s have brought a massive number of new participants into the sport by making what was once a complicated, dangerous, expensive (loads of stuff needed), difficult to enter pastime into one that joe bloggs can pretty much walk into for no more than a few quid and a five minute induction. From your own statement it would seem that a majority (70%) are only interested in bouldering and as even the most Gucci of boulders isn't going to spend much money on kit each year there is little commercial interest to promote the activity by the climbing equipment manufacturers. Likewise local councils, who have had budgets cut, have no real tangible reason to fund the events.

For these events to succeed they need to be backed by companies who have a financial interest in promoting indoor climbing and as far as i can see the big winner in the growth of participation is the walls. I am not saying that any of them are making enough money to individually fund the event but surly together you could all pay for a world cup event in the UK.

I am guessing there are 50+ dedicated climbing centres in the UK so that's only 1k each, which is nothing if it will benefit your clientèle as much as you say it does. If you each got 10 new people interested and climbing regularly at your wall due to the raised profile of the sport its money well spent. Perhaps the BMC could be responsible for the organisation but without having to stump up the physical costs.

Location wise it makes logical sense to be linked to an event like cliffhanger with a large potential crowd and where a majority of people there are not really climbers or you would be just preaching to the converted.