[Nibile]

Yes, I am really asking something about technique! The mind boggles.
Is there an "official" technique for "bicycles"? I mean those feet placements in which you pull with one toe box and push with the other sole.
Is it just body positioning, or one should place the feet according to which hand is going to be moved? I'd say that the foot of the side of the hand movement has to push, the other one to toehook.
Then, when you've done the hand move, how do you release the feet? Which has to go first, the toehook, or the other one?
I'd say the toehook, because releasing the push first would let you even more stretched out, so that when releasing the toehook it would be difficult to hold a swing?
Thanks.

[Dave Flanagan]

Depends

[bendavison]

I find these confusing too... I often find myself looking at a hold which should be 'bicycled' with a bit of a puzzled look on my face.

I'd agree with you that the foot of the side of the hand movement should normally push, after that it does depend a lot on the orientation and position of the next hold. Taking the toe hook out can be pretty tough unless you've got wide and opposing grips (or core which is better than a slinky). Sometimes matching the toe hook helps because you can move a foot underneath you (I'm imagining a bicycle out to the side in this situation). And sometime reaching back under to undercut next to the toe hook can help to move you feet and is often easier to release after, but takes longer...

Also, when using them in general I've found hip position to be most important, and they usually limit my reach because I struggle to move off a bent arm when using them.

What Dave said.

[Nibile]

Depends

What Dave said.

Oh the irony in this.  The only time I ask for some technique, it turns out that there's no technique.
Back to one armers then.
 

[tomtom]

Kneebars instead

[ghisino]

okay it depends, and we could stop here.

but i'll try some armchairing anyway, with the help of my counsellor Louis Bouillot, who's wearing a rosé outfit today.

generally speaking i'd relase first the foot that's further from your hands (you can bycicle big pockets, not just protruding features!).

which foot goes where will mostly depend on which one is easier to put where, before and after the bycicle, but if this is neutral then i'd toehook on the same side of the reaching hand-dunno why but it feels more natural to twist on the good side that way.

[tomtom]

Thinking about it, I tend to release the pushing foot rather than the toe hook first... though it does depend on the next move/position etc... I also find its really important to use body tension to keep your hips high. Sagging arse makes bicycle move much harder..

[abarro81]

I find it crazy that you'd expect any answer other than 'it depends'... You've basically asked the equivalent of ' if I want to move my left hand should I sit on my left foot or my right foot'. Too much training not enough climbing.

[Dave Flanagan]

if I want to move my left hand should I sit on my left foot or my right foot'.

Easy. Left foot so you have diagonal points of contact as you reach. Next?

[Jim]

they're called push-pull pressure toe smears BTW to give them they're proper name.

[Sasquatch]

Then, when you've done the hand move, how do you release the feet? Which has to go first, the toehook, or the other one?

Whichever allows to stay on the wall and make the next foot move easier.  Sometimes, this is the toehook, sometimes the pulling foot.  Sometimes you match the toehook(gasp) to release the orginal toehooking foot to move to the next needed foothold.  Sometimes you cut both and use the momentum.  It all depends on the optimal sequence.....

[csl]

I find it crazy that you'd expect any answer other than 'it depends'... You've basically asked the equivalent of ' if I want to move my left hand should I sit on my left foot or my right foot'. Too much training not enough climbing.

What he said,

Depends to much to ever give an answer.

[tomtom]

I find it crazy that you'd expect any answer other than 'it depends'... You've basically asked the equivalent of ' if I want to move my left hand should I sit on my left foot or my right foot'. Too much training not enough climbing.

A slightly tetchy response there?.... Maybe too much climbing and not enough sex?

[PipeSmoke]

what even is bicycle technique ?

 

[abarro81]

Dave - never sat on right foot with a deep flag to move left hand?
Tomtom - I just couldn't be arsed to play nice. I thought it was a dumb question so I said so.

[rodma]

Also depends on the handholds.

I tend to release the top foot first if the handhold is bad since the hooking foot is all that is keeping me on. If I can generate enough out of the handhold I release the toehook first.

And if I can generate a little more out of the handholds no need to bicycle

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk

[Dave Flanagan]

Dave - never sat on right foot with a deep flag to move left hand?

Yes, I was only messing.

[Nibile]

Too much training not enough climbing.

Just read this!!! Ahahahahah!!!
Jesus fucking Christ, it's so funny. You're so clever!
How did I not think about going away on a climbing trip for a few weeks, in search of routes and boulders to practice my skills!
I'm so stupid.
Thank you Alex, you da man.

[Hoseyb]

Agree with all said.... However, there has to be some science 

to release a limb more pressure has to be on the other three (precluding head/knob/shoulder/hip jams etc), thus to release a foot from a bicycle(Exit the Bicycle), it must be the one under the least tension to hold the position you are in. A compressed position would release a toe hook, and under elongation tension would release a pusher. These are ends of the scale and those positions in between would require individual judgement.

Following from that entering the bicycle, would depend on oppositional quality of the hand holds (is the upperbody functioning independantly?), sequence (which foot can move first?) and whether the release of the second foot after initial placement into the bicycle requires tension of compression.

After that its all sequence dependant, and whether you can optimise your core (favour opposing limbs) or make do for a better  overall link. 

[flyguy]

disagree, why does they have to be a science, shirley its just down to feel, what feels the easiest and what gets the job done. less analysis and just pull?

[tomtom]

Science is needed because I'm sat at my desk - not climbing - so thinking about it makes my day more interesting

[Dexter]

regarding foot release I think flexibility can make a huge difference here. For example, if you can release the toe on top then move it to a better position to release the toe hook it can be easier. On top of this even if you can't move the foot to another hold you can bring it closer to your body thus minimising any swing. Failing that I guess release the toe hook and core down

[Teaboy]

I guess all that remains is for someone to mention yoga and then we're done with this thread?

[slackline]

disagree, why does they have to be a science, shirley its just down to feel, what feels the easiest and what gets the job done. less analysis and just pull?

Because its determined by physical forces such as gravity and those exerted by the climber on the available holds and is therefore conducive to a logical approach to give a better understanding of just what MTFU means.

[SA Chris]

In my day bicycling was a technique employed by novices climbing on slabs in trainers.

[flyguy]

Fair enough just thought there are too many variables to apply science to this and come up with a sure fire equation of how to apply the "bicycle".

[as646]

I think I have your "scientific" solution, however it only works in the case of spherical climbers in a vacuum...

[slackline]

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful." - George E. P. Box Empirical Model-Building and Response Surfaces (1987)

Or a slightly longer version...

"Since all models are wrong the scientist cannot obtain a "correct" one by excessive elaboration. On the contrary following William of Occam [t]he[y] should seek an economical description of natural phenomena. Just as the ability to devise simple but evocative models is the signature of the great scientist so overelaboration and overparameterization is often the mark of mediocrity." - George E. P. Box Science and Statistics (1976)

[benno]

Agree with "it depends" as a general sentiment, but most of the time it's likely to be the toe-hook that you release first, surely? The whole point of bicycles (as far as I ever use them, correct me if I'm wrong here) is to take some weight on a toe-hook on a feature that's too poor/close to just hang the toe-hook off.

Well, unless you've just moved your hand to something further away so now the toe-hook is better... Does this mean it just depends? :p

[SA Chris]

That depends on it depending.