[unclesomebody]

In a quest to find gritstone we headed out there for a few months, and found no gritstone but did find plenty of chossy shit rock!  However, it was a proper adventure, and worth it for that alone.  However, there may still be gritstone there... there was a mystical valley the locals were telling us about... a deep valley with huge faces on either side, but we never managed to get there.  A massive country with massive amounts of rock, but the solid stuff was hard to find, but plenty of potential for someone keen enough and with enough time to invest.  We found an amazing limestone amphitheatre of rock, literally 360 degrees... overhanging on most sides, but we had no bolting equipment... and it was in the middle of nowhere with no running water within a days drive!  

If anyone is thinking of going then get in touch.

[a dense loner]

there is no gritstone anywhere in the world apart from the north of england. is this true?

[dave]

theres some places in the US that claim to have gritstone, but its not going to be the same is it?

[a dense loner]

no they don't have grit, i think they're called griddles now. if they did have grit it would be bigger n better than our's n they wouldn't let us forget it. a fairly safe bet that they don't have it then.
sorry blunk  :wink:

[unclesomebody]

Yeah, i think it's fair to say that we are the only ones with true gritstone.  The whole grit in outer mongolia was apparently made up in a pub by johnny dawes... don't know how true this is, and askign him probably wouldn't get any answers...

[Dave Flanagan]

there is no gritstone anywhere in the world apart from the north of england. is this true?

Nope there are loads of gritstone crags in Ireland in
Cavan http://www.climbing.ie/counties/cavan.html see "Englishman's House Crag -This crag over a mile long faces east...60 metres high and consists of vertical and overhanging sandstone/gritstone, albeit very vegetated."
Leitrim http://www.climbing.ie/counties/leitrim.html,
Fermanagh http://www.climbing.ie/counties/fermanagh.html.

[a dense loner]

is this grit or is it sandstone/grit? have you been? is there any other type of rock that is indigenious to that particular area anywhere in the world?

[Dave Flanagan]

is this grit or is it sandstone/grit? have you been? is there any other type of rock that is indigenious to that particular area anywhere in the world?

Haven't been. AndyR has though and he is a scientist so maybe he will be able to understand you last question cause I can't.

[a dense loner]

that's grit in my book :D
i meant there's only grit here n (now) in ireland. sandstone, lime n granite get everywhere. is there anythin else? gabbro in scotland n wales etc

[screwyouI'mfromderby]

I'll be in Mongolia in about 8/9 months time. Any serious beta would be greatly appreciated, daft gritstone stories notwithstanding.

[unclesomebody]

Well, I assume you are going to be in Ulaan Bataar initially.  There is actually a climbing wall there, which we were priveledged to see, but not actually use.  It's a secret little affair apparently.  Anyway, the closest real climbing to UB is Terelj national park.  You may remember from Greshams article... this is the place they spent the most time in, which is strange since the rock is pretty crap.  However, there is a LOT of rock... massive granite domes as far as you can see in all directions just pop out the ground.  I have lots of pics so if I can find some free hosting I'll put em up.  There is loads of stuff to climb in Terelj, from fun multi pitch VS cracks, to death on a stick E5's, and even some sport routes!  We didn't know about these until some locals dragged us along to see... we were so shocked when we saw these two lines of brand new petzl bolts going straight up.  We later found out they were for the Mongolian National Climbing competition.  One route for women, one for men.  No disrespect to the Mongolian national team, but they were both very easy.  No harder than fr. 7b for the men and fr. 6b for the girls.  

That is the biggest area which is easily accesible from UB.  Most of the other areas will require a driver and an off-road vehicle (cause there are no roads!).  It depends how long you're going to be in Mongolia for, and where abouts in Mongolia.  There were some amazing granite (solid rock!) outcrops towards the west of the country.  Anyway, I have more info, but let me know what you want...

[Bubba]

if I can find some free hosting I'll put em up.

send them here if you want and I'll put them up for you.

[unclesomebody]

ok, what size do you want them (because they are all currently uncompressed images!), and how many can i send?  

[Bubba]

As many as you like - I usually keep pics to about 800 pixels wide on the longest edge, and then compress them so that they're < 200k each - I'll pm you the email...

[Johnny Brown]

Dense wrote:
is there any other type of rock that is indigenious to that particular area anywhere in the world?
i meant there's only grit here n (now) in ireland. sandstone, lime n granite get everywhere. is there anythin else? gabbro in scotland n wales etc

i'll try not to confuse you...
basically you've gotta think about how it was made. Volcanic rocks like granite, gabbro n basalt can turn up anywhere cos they start as molten goo in the centre of the earth n just get squirted out of volcanoes. Whether they get to the surface and how slowly they cool depends on what you get at the end. Granite comes from big lumps that sit in the ground, gabbro tends to be more volcanic - the bubbles in it (that rip yer ands) are like the fizz when you open lemonade.

Limestone grows in the sea. As long as there is sea limestone will keep growing. That's why the white dirt gets bloody everywhere.

Other sedimentary rocks like sandstone depend on the sand being produced somewhere. Mountains get pushed up, then get washed away by the rain and fill up the gutters, eventually turnin into other rocks. What the mountain was made of and how heavily it was rainin determines what sand we get.

Limestone dissolves, so it just disappears, fank thuk. Other stuff gets moved around, with the bits gettin slowly smaller. Most of the red stuff we think of as typical sandstone was made in deserts. Shiftin around as dunes for ever means all the sand ends up pretty fine. Deserts bein pretty common, again there's a lot of it about.

Grit is made from mountains which used to be where southern scotland is. They were big mountains and the sea was near, so the rocks didn't get worn down that much, and were still gritty when they got there. A big delta built out into the sea, kinda like bangladesh is now, and buried all the limestone wot was growin in the sea - whoopee! When it didn't rain much only fine sand got washed down; when it pissed it down pebbles came too - which is why pebbles often come in bands.

A bit later the mountains had all gone and the land got bent up a bit. A glacier shaved the top off, making a nice ring of grit edges, but unfortunately exposed the dirty lime in the middle.

So grit ain't common cos the way it got laid down is pretty unusual. Also exactly wot the mountains were made of affects the sand. So there could be grit in mongolia but its very unlikely it will be exactly the same. As far as geologists are concerned the name just means how fine the sand is - hence Cilan grit on the lleyn, which is well different innit.

[Bonjoy]

Most of the binding material in typical grit is an Iron based mineral called lignite.
 The grains in desert sandstones are rounded due to being blown/rolled about by the wind, this is why such sandstones have a ballbearingy soft low friction surface.

[Johnny Brown]

That's all very well, but you've confused him now with those technical terms :roll: He may have a degree but he's still from chadderton

[Bubba]

Here's unclesomebody's first pics - the place looks incredible...

[unclesomebody]

in all those pics apart from the last two, if you look hard you'll see two white dots, that's me and a mate.  Those domes are BIG!

[Avoiding the Traitor]

Jeez imperessive !! what kind of rock are they? look a bit like Gritstone.

[Bubba]

Read the earlier posts for the gritstone thang...

[Avoiding the Traitor]

But it looked certainly like Gritstone (Large version of RHS)

[hongkongstuey]

Volcanic rocks like granite.

 :bash: Slap yourself on the wrist and get back to your geology textbooks - i think you'll find granite under the section that says igneous rock, not volcanic............

[AndyR]

Most of the binding material in typical grit is an Iron based mineral called lignite.

What book you reading Bonjoy? Lignite is the mid-stage in the coal forming process - i.e. between peaty material and coal - often called brown coal and mined in massive open cast pits in places like poland.

Do you mean limonite? Which is a complex mixture of hydrated iron oxides and iron hydroxides.

Most grit cements are actually a mixture of iron hydroxides, quartz and clays, which is why it's so variable.

[AndyR]

So grit ain't common cos the way it got laid down is pretty unusual. Also exactly wot the mountains were made of affects the sand. So there could be grit in mongolia but its very unlikely it will be exactly the same.

I haven't climbed in the eastern US, but there's a good chance that there may be grit there - this is because the appalachians are the same chain of mountains as the scottish highlands - so any proximal deltaic sediments formed from the eroding hills could be very grit-like.

[Bonjoy]

Yes i do mean Limonite (which is something like a cross between a french lemon and a climbing photoghrapher). It's been a few years since i was at uni :oldgit: .

[AndyR]

[
Most grit cements are actually a mixture of iron hydroxides, quartz and clays, which is why it's so variable.

Doh - I meant to say calcite rather than quartz.

[hongkongstuey]

Doh - I meant to say calcite rather than quartz.

shocking, i don't know where you lot bought your geology degree's from but i'd be asking for a refund............................

[AndyR]

Doh - I meant to say calcite rather than quartz.

shocking, i don't know where you lot bought your geology degree's from but i'd be asking for a refund............................

At least we didn't get them from a dodgy street vendor in Honkers......

[Blunk]

no they don't have grit, i think they're called griddles now. if they did have grit it would be bigger n better than our's n they wouldn't let us forget it. a fairly safe bet that they don't have it then.
sorry blunk  

Dense, what I've got that is bigger and better than yours is a currently expanding waistline. Up 2 kilos in the past month! Blame the beer and overly hot summer days. ':wink:'

[Johnny Brown]

i think you'll find granite under the section that says igneous rock, not volcanic............

laymans terms so as not to confuse...

I haven't climbed in the eastern US, but there's a good chance that there may be grit there - this is because the appalachians are the same chain of mountains as the scottish highlands - so any proximal deltaic sediments formed from the eroding hills could be very grit-like.

Pat King has told such tales of yankee grit in this area... not the most reliable source but I'd agree its the most likely spot

[Percy B]

No grit that I'm aware of in the eastern US, although they have a lot of coarse sandstone (e.g: Citadel in Alabama). This stuff is ace to climb on, but its not God's Own Rock, its coarse sandstone! Our grit is pretty unique..... I'm sure the same rock exists in other locations, but we haven't found it yet, and when we do, whats the betting the crags won't be as good or as wide spread as the grit crags of the Peak?

[Johnny Brown]

...and yorkshire :roll:

[bigphil]

Eloquently said Mr Brown.  Was that your whole first year at Uni compressed into a few short paragraphs or the whole three years?  Anyway, it reminded me of a lot of things I had forgotten.  Cheers.