[Fiend]

 

[Rocksteady]

Saw a really disturbing dog attack at the crag on Sunday where a Jack Russell was savaged by a bigger dog - some kind of bull terrier cross I think although I'd struggle to pick it out of a line out. About eight people were really trying to get the dog to release its jaws (including the owner screaming at it, getting his hands in its mouth, kicking, punching it) but it wouldn't let go for several minutes. Don't know how it all started as I was belaying a little way up the crag - the Jack Russell did snap at another dog earlier in the day so don't know if it did the same and provoked a horrifying response.

The only thing that got the dog to release its bite was a combination of pulling its front legs apart and levering its jaws open with a clipstick. This is worth knowing in case of ever being unfortunate enough to be involved in something like this. Makes me very cautious about any dog that can lock on with its jaws like that and I think I'm now of the opinion that they should be properly banned like they are in Australia.

Hope the Jack Russell survives - commiserations to all involved if anyone reads this. It was a really horrible thing to see and hear and must be infinitely worse for the dog owners.

[Sloper]

I can imagine that the owners of the bull terrier are blaming the other dog for not knowing how to behave around dogs or some other sort of fuckwitted excuse.

Of course I could be wrong and we could hear they've done the sensible thing and had the dog destroyed but that would require a microgram of intelligence so we can probably rule that out.

I hope that the owners of the jack russell are insured and that the insurers look to recover the costs from the owner of the other dog.

[andy popp]

Makes me very cautious about any dog that can lock on with its jaws like that and I think I'm now of the opinion that they should be properly banned like they are in Australia.

Agreed. There is no possible justification for owning a dog capable of this. And why would you even want to own a dog capable of doing this?

[Sloper]

Never rule out stupidity.

The latest craze at the moment seems to be wolf style cross breeds.  There's a hipster twat near us who has one and allow sit to run off the lead in the park oblivious to the large number of young children playing and that quel surprise when the kids are throwing balls and so on the dog bounds over towards them.

The suggestion that he might put his dog on the lead was, in his words well out of order and that I was being a fascist.  I'm currently trying to be less confrontational so I politely set out my views i.e. that he was a fucking antisocial moron when the temptation was to grab him by the throat.

Just a quick one, which moron is going to pop up and say all dogs are equally dangerous and it's all about the owners etc?  Come one, I know there's a fucktard around.

woof.

[galpinos]

When living in France I saw a yapy little dog, off the lead, having a go at a husky-esque breed that was tied up. The husky did nothing until the little dog was within striking distance, then in one swift movement went straight for the throat of the little dog, cue lots of blood, one limp little dog and a screaming owner. Horrible.

[Rocksteady]

Makes me very cautious about any dog that can lock on with its jaws like that and I think I'm now of the opinion that they should be properly banned like they are in Australia.

Agreed. There is no possible justification for owning a dog capable of this. And why would you even want to own a dog capable of doing this?

From his expression, I think the owner of the dog that mauled the JR was utterly shocked. I'm not inclined to 'blame' him - he was a climber, I don't like to assume that he was deliberately walking around with a dog he knew to be dangerous. There's a lot of feeling out there re: dogs i.e. I owned a pit bull/Rottweiler etc and it had the sweetest temper, never hurt a fly, baby used to ride on it etc etc. People think certain breeds have been unfairly maligned on this basis. I like dogs, but it's true that all dogs have sharp teeth and predatory instincts, to some extent. But a dog that has an instinct to bite and not let go, and is too big and powerful to easily extract from what it's biting - just shouldn't be allowed to be out among people. It shouldn't be an available choice to buy or own - so if you see someone with one you know they're breaking the law, and can shop them.

Re: Sloper's point, I've been looking up about dangerous dogs having seen this horrible incident and wolf-style cross breeds are right up there, being big and powerful and with a strong prey drive. I'm not really one for government intervention on too many things but basically allowing people to walk around with animals like this is a bit like allowing people to walk around with weapons.

[Sloper]

Why should you not blame an antisocial reatrd for being an antisocial retard just because he's a climber?

The "'ooohhhh' I didn't know that the pit bull type/ husky / mastiff etc was a dangerous dog" (not in the sense of the 1991 legislation, just in the sense of the blindingly fucking obvious) is insult to injury when the inevitable occurs and a child (as it is usually a child) is savaged or killed.

Of course all dogs can bite, but let's be honest most of us would happily take on a collie, labrador, spaniel etc (let alone any number of the hairy rat type of toy dog) but I can't see anyone wanting to fight an enraged pit bull type etc.

There's a reason why certain dog types are disproptionately involved in serious / fatal attacks on humans: and drum roll please . . . it's beause they're inherently dangerous. 

Habrich, yes, astonishing isn't it? Remarkably this happens after pretty much every serious incident.

[Sloper]

A quick google produced this

http://dogbitelaw.com/images/pdf/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

Yes, it's American, it's nearly 20 years out of date but seems pretty clear.  Certain types of dogs are disproportionately lethal.

(the collie and spaniel apparently were involved in a fatal pack attack)

[rich d]

The problem is that these things were bred to fight bears and bulls, so they're quite hard.
Obviously the following advice is for self defence, or defence of others and not if a lab has just eaten your salami sandwiches. You can theoretically pull it's legs apart sharply which can give it a heart attack, but is more likely to break it's knees which will make it let go, short of that you'd have to shove your thumbs through its eyes, although keys may work better if you had them to hand. In a climbing area your best bet night be to smash it's head in with a rock.

[Sloper]

Much better to make owners strictly liable in criminal law for injuries caused, that with compulsory licensing and insurance should be a good starting point.

[rich d]

Yep you're right sloper.

[metal arms]

Haterz gonna hate

Dyserth Waterfall Crag by metal arms, on Flickr

Dyserth Castle Slab by metal arms, on Flickr

Paenmaen Head by metal arms, on Flickr

[Sloper]

Why? two dogs on the lead not doing anything or have I missed the remains of a savaged child / stolen pork pie debris ?

[fried]

Is that a public right of way that they're sleeping on? Me or my kids could quite easily trip over one of them and have our eye out on something or other.

[Sasquatch]

Did someone kill them for getting mud on the carpet?

[metal arms]

Why? two dogs on the lead not doing anything or have I missed the remains of a savaged child / stolen pork pie debris ?

Just wanted an excuse to post sleepy dog pictures.  Neither has ever killed a child but both are terrible food thieves.  I'd be more keen for people to keep their seagulls under control at crags though.  I once lost a packet of crunch creams to one at Gogarth. 

[rich d]

Bit skinny for pitbulls aren't they?

[johnx2]

let 'em lie

[Fiend]

 

[Rocksteady]

Shit just seen on t'other channel that the Jack Russell I saw attacked had to be put down. The bull terrier was apparently on a lead too!

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=613228

I'm genuinely disturbed by what I saw - really gutted for the owner. I will certainly give any bull-terrier type dog a very wide berth from now on.

[Fiend]

Horrible

That is a very thoughtful and forgiving post by the OP on there.

[slackline]

If you do take your dog to the crag make sure they wear appropriate personal safety equipment...



NB - Not my dog.

[tomtom]

The frog should be wearing high vis though...

[slackline]