[AndyR]

 

habrich whatever you do, do not read Mike Owen's blog. Your head will explode.

I read that yesterday and thought I'd slipped into a parallel universe. Mental.

[Offwidth]

So dogs are a good judge of character then. 

I think they are. If the owner is a prick, the dog is all too often badly behaved. Dogs with bad owners can be anything from a nuisance to plain tragic: if anyone has seen a heavily pregnant sheep die after being chased by some lumpen hound having fun, as the fuckwit owner is incapable of controlling it, they would understand. On the other hand, dogs with responsible owners have made some of my most fun and memorable days at the crag.

Its worth say too many climbers see themselves as responsible but think things like access rules or respect for other crag users dont apply to them, so in fact they are the opposite. It all encourages folk to tar the good owners with the same brush. Above all you can't blame a dog for being a dog, any fault for me after problems is always on the owner.

[Sloper]

Indeed, how many times have climbers taken dogs to crags when the signs are up saying 'no dogs', there have been dogs at Bamford about 50% of the times I've been there, most dog owners simply can't accept that a lot of people don't like dogs and don't want dogs running up to them slavering, it's not that they don't know this its just that they couldn't give a fuck.

[Offwidth]

.".... there have been dogs at Bamford about 50% of the times I've been there, "

[\quote]

I've been to Bamford more often than I can remember and only seen dogs on a minority of times and nearly always (being interested in access I do ask politely) it was local walkers who say they have walked their dogs up there for years. Only once did I see climbers with dogs. So.I seriously suspect either you sweat some kind of natural 'dog-nip' or much more likely you are making shit up again.

"most dog owners simply can't accept that a lot of people don't like dogs and don't want dogs running up to them slavering, it's not that they don't know this its just that they couldn't give a fuck."   complete nonsense in the context of our crags... most climbers who own dogs and take them climbing seem to me to be pretty concerned not to piss off other crag users.

[Sloper]

.".... there have been dogs at Bamford about 50% of the times I've been there, "

[\quote]

I've been to Bamford more often than I can remember and only seen dogs on a minority of times and nearly always (being interested in access I do ask politely) it was local walkers who say they have walked their dogs up there for years. Only once did I see climbers with dogs. So.I seriously suspect either you sweat some kind of natural 'dog-nip' or much more likely you are making shit up again.

"most dog owners simply can't accept that a lot of people don't like dogs and don't want dogs running up to them slavering, it's not that they don't know this its just that they couldn't give a fuck."   complete nonsense in the context of our crags... most climbers who own dogs and take them climbing seem to me to be pretty concerned not to piss off other crag users.

Ahh, the old you're a liar comeback, a classic, well I think you're making up your statement, wow, we've really moved the debate on haven't we?

[abarro81]

I cant remember a single instance of an annoying dog at the crag. Plenty that have nicked my food and, heaven forbid, jumped up at me in a playful manner; but not one that has annoyed me.

I dont think my dogs have ever annoyed anyone, only rabbits.

Putting these 2 sentences together, I suspect your dogs have annoyed many people! If a dog nicks my food it annoys me. If a dog tries to nick my food it annoys me. If a dog looks like it's gonna try to nick my food, thus forcing me to hide it all away in the bottom of my bag every time I want to have a snack it annoys me. If a dog covers my rope/pad in mud it annoys me. Well behaved dogs (e.g. as someone's mentioned, Simon's dog Pip) are fine, poorly behaved dogs are only endearing to their owners and those in a very good and forgiving mood, not the average person. [Obviously I don't know if your dogs are well behaved or not, but I can assure you than 9/10 of the people I climb with find dogs nicking their food annoying. Whoever said that people normally just avoid confrontation is correct - the fact that you don't get told your dog is annoying doesn't mean that it isn't annoying!]

[cheque]

Best crag dog experience- Shark's son chucking a down jacket over Pip's head and her just sitting there motionless for ages. 

Worst crag dog experience- American guy taking a crap in the woods, his dog following him, digging it up and eating it, then returning to the crag and puking it all over somebody's rope. 

[Fiend]

Habrich, you've made YOUR personal bias very clear.

Hopefully others have made it clear in response that your horrible and regrettable experience would justifiy hostility / retaliation (just as it seems accepted for farmers to shoot dogs that are killing sheep), and that would be a world away from killing dogs that-have-not-just-actively-harmed-someone (since you don't like the word "innocent"), and the punishment that person received.



Cheque, loving that Best Crag Dog experience story. Less so the Worst one.

[Fiend]

Finally, I hope this displays:

[tomtom]

:D

[Offwidth]

.".... there have been dogs at Bamford about 50% of the times I've been there, "

[\quote]

Ahh, the old you're a liar comeback,

Ahh, the old 'lets pretend Im falsely accused of being a liar to avoid explaining the situation' rhetorical gambit . Firstly, I didnt accuse you straight out of telling porkies, I questioned my very different experience at the crag with (slightly mean) verbal play, in effect positing maybe exaggeration was at play on your part.  Since you wish to deal with debate lets overlook my attempt at a humourous prod and maybe lets try and work it out.  Bamford is one of the few places climbers seemed to me to be avoiding taking dogs (unlike the locals who walk their dogs on the scarp edge above). In contrast Stanage End in my experience sees way more climbers with dogs in defiance of access requests. Now I've not been to Bamford in the last year and not so often in the last three. I know its never going to become some kind of dog preferred venue (just like I know you dont actually smell of dog nip ). Yet there must be an explanation. Given the attitude of the landowner to climbers and dogs and my interest in this subject, I can't help but wonder why my close links to the BMC access reps haven't generated noticable developments.

Bamford access notes are here and as the crag base isn't on a public footpath (unlike Stanage, End), no dogs means just that or we risk access worsening under CRoW:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=344

[kelvin]

I've spent a few days climbing at Bamford since September, I dunno maybe ten in total - never seen a dog there. Even on the busier days and nearer the parking end but I will say that I was totally unaware that dogs are frowned upon. This may be due to me not having a dog and therefore not looking for information like that, I guess that's quite possible.

I'll happily pet a dog at the crag but I really don't want a dog slobbering in front of me when I'm eating my lunch. I'm too polite to tell the owner to ask it to move - but after reading this thread, I'm obviously not alone in this and I think in future I'll man up.

[a dense loner]

I hate dogs

[Will Hunt]

I think it's clear from this thread that there is a generally silent majority of people who think that dogs are rubbish. They are gross, slavering, dirty, smelly, loud and obnoxious creatures with no social skills whatsoever.
The problem is that dog owners seem to think that everybody shares their inexplicable enthusiasm for the wretched specimens. They think dogs are gods that walk amongst us, and the worst bit is: the dogs fucking know it.

[Fiend]

Swap "dogs" for "kids" and you might be right.

Anyway as long as the silent so-called majority stay silent (apart from politely and firmly requesting dog owners to get a fucking grip if their dog is harassing people), that's just fine.


Dense: Even Bighands dog? Rubbish taste in bringing sticks to throw, I swear it brought me bracken when I met the lads at Hunter Stones.

[Will Hunt]

Swap "dogs" for "kids" and you might be right.

Kids grow up.

[a dense loner]

I have half hatred for Ronnie. I stand there saying to him " You want me throw the stick don't you? Do you think I'm stupid?" I'm pretty sure he's nodding at this point

But no on the whole I honestly can't stand dogs. Don't even get me started on cats!

[webbo]

I have half hatred for Ronnie. I stand there saying to him " You want me throw the stick don't you? Do you think I'm stupid?" I'm pretty sure he's nodding at this point

But no on the whole I honestly can't stand dogs. Don't even get me started on cats!

What how you love them and if anyone says anything bad about them, they are dead meat.

[Moo]

They aren't as bad as cats though.

[Fiend]

I think this summarises and hopefully concludes the debate better than any of us can:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/dogs-win-worst-pet-for-14th-year-in-row-2013091379444

[Sloper]

Swap "dogs" for "kids" and you might be right.

Kids grow up.

Fiend is living proof you're wrong.

[Zods Beard]

Dog's that nick your lunch = Shithouses.

Dog's that nick your mates lunch = Legends.

[Offwidth]

Fiend is living proof you're wrong.

His dislike for dogs and alledged immaturity hasn't reached the point where he sees dogs that are not even there. Forget dog nip maybe you are a dog medium. Dog lovers would pay a fortune to communicate with their ex-pets you know. Still not sure why dog ghosts would be attacted in such numbers to the base of climbs at Bamford though.

[Falling Down]

I love dogs..

[dr_botnik]

I'm not a dog owner, some of my friends are.

I actually like dogs at crags. Never had or seen an issue with them.

Only problem with a dog I've seen was at the kids playpark at the ponderosa. Some junkies walked by and an obviously disobedient staffie ran in through the gate. Ran up to a father playing with his 2 year old, the junkies were shouting and dog not responding. Nowt bad happened, but the father did freakout, guess he didn't know how to deal with dogs. As he was obviously scared the dog responded to this and chased him. I stepped in with confident body language and a quick shout, the dog backed off (i was en route to grab its collar and eject it) the junkies tried to make out it wasn't normally like that, but I wasn't going to go further than telling them in no uncertain terms they needed to keep that dog under control as they obviously didn't give a shit.

Never seen this sort of behaviour at the crag, wouldn't be afraid of saying something to the owners if I did. Have met some wonderful dogs, and their keepers, at crags. Probably due to the selection bias of people willing to put the time and effort into appreciating the great outdoors ~ = willing to spend the time and effort to correctly train station their dogs. Watch this, next time I'm out I'll have my lunch knicked now out of some karmic realignment jizzle.