[Ti_pin_man]

Decided two weeks ago to drop a stone but try not too loose strength, was 13 stone 6 foot tall.  most of the weight was in my legs from years of cycling. 

so far, first couple of weeks I've lost a steady couple of pounds a week, nice and safely.  Diet is mainly more protein, tons of veg and salad and cut the crap out.  also reduced bread/pasta intake.  No rocket science, just healthier choices.  The evening meal is just that a normal mostly healthy evening meal.  No booze.

Quite happy with progress, continuing to train, ride and climb BUT last night I went indoor climbing and really just had no oomph, the tanks felt empty for the session so I climbed like a pussy and binned it off.  I had climbed Fri / Sat and done footwork on the weekend, then took Monday off, day of rest. 

I guess logic says I should eat some flapjack a few hours before I climb and get soem energy but I dont want the high calories and really am want to know what to do, protein shake?  doesnt that just add calories I dont want whilst trying to drop weight? 

I'm clearly a luddite when it comes to diet, any experts tell me where I'm going wrong. 

More pasta pastor?

[a dense loner]

What you had one shit climbing session and now you want advice about diet?

[Johnny Brown]

Eat some sweets on the way to the wall.

[Ti_pin_man]

What you had one shit climbing session and now you want advice about diet?

  I've had plenty but this one was worse than usual and I could have fallen asleep between climbs.   

sweets, noooooo that be against my law.

[Stubbs]

I recommend a Boost or Double Decker before climbing washed down with a cup of tea.

[Johnny Brown]

sweets, noooooo that be against my law

Well there's your problem then. Did you watch that fat vs sugar thing? It's not rocket science, just eat appropriately for the activity. Sweets at a desk make you fat, during exercise they deliver energy.

[cheque]

Jelly Babies are good for eating while you climb as you're less aware of how much chalk you've got on them.

[Ti_pin_man]

Jelly Babies are good for eating while you climb as you're less aware of how much chalk you've got on them.

Genius!  Pure genius.

But avoiding sweets, any other ideas?  in pre diet days I might drink a over-caffeinated sugary drink company or coke and have a flapjack but waaaay too much sweet for loosing weight.

[Paul B]

so far, first couple of weeks I've lost a steady couple of pounds a week, nice and safely.  Diet is mainly more protein, tons of veg and salad and cut the crap out.  also reduced bread/pasta intake.  No rocket science, just healthier choices.  The evening meal is just that a normal mostly healthy evening meal.  No booze.

Watch this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03t8r4h/Horizon_20132014_Sugar_v_Fat/

and you'll understand what's going on.

[Ti_pin_man]

watched that when it was on telly box, didnt help.

[Johnny Brown]

So you don't eat sugar and you're complaining you lack energy during exercise? But you won't start eating sugar? Try a pat of butter like the guy on the programme.

[Paul B]

watched that when it was on telly box, didnt help.

Did you have it on mute? It goes through how the body uses various food sources for energy, the effect, and the pro's and con's of each.

So you don't eat sugar and you're complaining you lack energy during exercise? But you won't start eating sugar? Try a pat of butter like the guy on the programme.

But avoiding sweets, any other ideas?  in pre diet days I might drink a over-caffeinated sugary drink company or coke and have a flapjack but waaaay too much sweet for loosing weight.

Some kind of simple carbohydrate or roll on the catabolism (if you're only worried about weight then go ahead, your original post doesn't suggest this).

[SA Chris]

Eat a banana or two then some chocolate chip cookies, if you want to be so blinkered about not eating sweets. Or some hobnobs.

What had you eaten in the hours before the training session when you felt knackered? If you say nothing you deserve a kick up the butt.

[cowboyhat]

What are the timings? Are you eating a low carb lunch at 1pm then going to the wall at 7pm....?

(I do that). I also eat a banana and a Naked bar/ small peanut butter sandwich at 5.30/6pm.


Go Nuts.

[Ti_pin_man]

Hmmm interesting ... ok, so ... I ate at 12.30 ish.  3 boiled eggs, a ton a chiken breast, beetroots/lettuce/olives and sliced pepper.  I followed this with a banana and an apple and yes I drank a lot of water through the day.  went climbing about 3.30/4pm. 

[cowboyhat]

If you only started dieting two weeks ago your body is probably still getting used to it.

[SA Chris]

Bend over, where's my boot?

How long do you normally climb for?

Sugary foods are not a crime, if eaten at the right time. (such poetry!)

Trying to lose weight and have sufficient energy for strenuous exercise is a bit of a balancing act. Provided you are losing weight steadily and eating well on days when you are not doing a lot of exercise I would always err on the side of caution and get a bit of sugar in on the exercise days. Sorry if that sounds like teaching you to eat eggs!

To my untrained eye your lunch has a lot of protein and complex carbs, nothing simple to release energy from quickly, apart from the fruit? I could be wrong though.

[abarro81]

I find it hard to work, diet and train. When attempting to, I try to snack on healthy shit in the morning (veg etc) to try to eat lunch closer to the time I go climbing. Always have a couple of bits of fruit for my climbing session too. Even then, if it's an endurance session I always almost have to resort to flapjack.

[Paul B]

You always have flapjack, remember it's me that is on the other side of the counter handing it to you.

[abarro81]

Sorry. Corrected.

Even then, if it's an endurance session or a strength session or an active rest day or a day before or after a climbing day, or a day on which I've got out of bed, I always have to resort to flapjack.

[Stu Littlefair]

No need to modify the original post barrows, it's always an endurance session for you.

[Wood FT]

No need to modify the original post barrows, it's always an endurance session for with you.

[Nibile]

I think that two pounds a week could have been too much too fast. 

[PipeSmoke]

How do you know it wasn't just an off day? I haven't been on a diet and still feel weak and tired sometimes. And if you refuse to eat sweets and stuff like that, how about bananas or peanut butter or something?
When you try hard to cut weight it is going to have an effect on energy levels.

[Sasquatch]

I guess logic says I should eat some flapjack a few hours before I climb and get soem energy but I dont want the high calories

As do everyone else on here. 

A 100-200cal mixed carb snack (simple and complex/or if you prefer low and high glycemic index) about 30min before climbing should do you wonders.  If you start feeling tired during session, add another 50cal snack and give it about 10-15 nminutes and you should feel better.  Won't last long though.

[tomtom]

I think that two pounds a week could have been too much too fast.

I lose weight at that kind of rate and am normally fine...

[webbo]

Hmmm interesting ... ok, so ... I ate at 12.30 ish.  3 boiled eggs, a ton a chiken breast, beetroots/lettuce/olives and sliced pepper.  I followed this with a banana and an apple and yes I drank a lot of water through the day.  went climbing about 3.30/4pm.

If I ate that any day for lunch I would need to go for a nap.

[Stubbs]

  3 boiled eggs, a ton a chiken breast, beetroots/lettuce/olives and sliced pepper.  I followed this with a banana and an apple

This seems like a shitload of food to have for lunch, a ton of chicken must be pretty expensive too.

[Nibile]

I think that two pounds a week could have been too much too fast.

I lose weight at that kind of rate and am normally fine...

At that rate all that is lost is basically just muscle tissue. That's why it's so fast. Muscles weigh, fat weighs a lot less, for the same mass. Maybe it's this the reason for the lack of power during the session. This and not enough carbs at the right moment. A completely carb deprived lunch isn't a good idea, you lack the energy to keep moving and fuel muscles, and all that proteins, leaving aside the fact that we can only metabolize a certain amount per meal, are going to need carbs to be better metabolized.

[webbo]

I disagree with this as your liver holds up to 2,500 cals in glycogen i.e. carbs. I very much doubt that you are going to burn this off in a couple of hours bouldering.

[Nibile]

Relying on liver based glycogen for a session doesn't sound as a good idea to me. Our body needs to adapt to resort to that kind of thing, as Dave MacLeod wrote on his blog. First of all, it's muscular glycogen that is used.
It could be good for a short term weight loss, but in the long term i wouldn't use it. 
But my point is another, that is the muscle mass consumption.
On very low calories regimenes, the first thing that our body does, is lowering the metabolism to reduce calories need. It's done by burning muscle tissue, not fat.
So, one loses weight, but becomes proportionally fatter and weaker. Maybe one could feel short term gains on the fingers, but overall power will drop.
My 2 cents (of Euro).

[Ti_pin_man]

I just knew this was a  hence posting. 

The reason for the diet is I'm trying to loose a bit of weight, probably temporarily to see if it helps my grade in the next couple of months.  kind of an experiment.  So the aim is to keep protein intake high and not cut out sugar/fat completely, only during breakfast and lunch then have a pretty normal dinner in the evening.  I felt empty on Tuesday night climbing and was curious if it related to my diet.  I was flat.  So was toying with the idea of eating something additional on the lunches before climbing in the evening.  the general concenus seems to be to consume some energy and stop moaning.  So going forward I will probably have something extra those days BUT try and make it pretty healthy, I'm thinking banana's and wholegrain bread... not chocolate and over-caffeinated sugary drink company!

[webbo]

My normal eating regime when not trying to lose weight is cereal granola or musieli at 06.45 am chickpea salad with humous, banana and an apple at 12/1.0 clock climb or other training at 5 or 6 then eat after. I rarely feel I'm lacking in energy.
At the moment trying to lose weight using 5 and 2 I'm training at the same time but only having had the fruit for lunch.I find it easier to do aerobic stuff on the fasting days, an hour on the turbo trainer as it requires less brain power than climbing although I have had some good climbing sessions on fasting days but usually my head feels full of cotton wool by 5 on these days.
 My energy levels feel ok.

[tim palmer]

On very low calories regimenes, the first thing that our body does, is lowering the metabolism to reduce calories need. It's done by burning muscle tissue, not fat.
So, one loses weight, but becomes proportionally fatter and weaker. Maybe one could feel short term gains on the fingers, but overall power will drop.
My 2 cents (of Euro).

I think it is extremely unlikely that this is the case in this instance, it would need to be a pretty savage and unbalanced diet to tip someone into such a catabolic state. 

Is it not just simply a lack of carbohydrate which our muscles like to function on? 

[krymson]

wasn't there a show on the BBC recently about 2 twins, one who cut out carbs and one who cut out fat? Both diets sucked balls but the one who cut out carbs felt lethargic all the time.

Sugar calories are not gonna make you fatter than calories from any other source. eat flapjack before the wall or some small sweets while climbing. the calories will be used immediatly and you'll do a lot better than starving yourself of carbs.

[Paul B]

that'll be the one embedded in page 1 

[krymson]

indeed it is! 

[bagger]

I'm not keen on eating before a session, for similar weight control reasons. I find that some tri-carb juice mix, mixed quite weak, usually gives me that wee bit extra to get through. I sip it regularly through the session, and if I dont need it I dont drink it. Worth a try?