(2) Not warming up effectively - i.e. getting on something too hard too early in the session.
I always take the painful cramp feeling in the forearms that you mention as a sign that I've climbed when I should have rested Luke.From your Power Club posts it looks like you're going to the wall after two or even three straight days of strength training. It's probably unrealistic to expect high performance on powerful routes in those circumstances!
I don't climb anywhere near the same amount as you, but climbing indoors I get the same thing. Afraid I've got no answer as to why though, possibly overgripping or not warming up? I always just assumed it was because I sucked.For me climbing indoors the difficulty is more a factor of the steepness than the given grade.
This has happened to me before, usually as a result of:(1) Training power on the day before; and/or(2) Not warming up effectively - i.e. getting on something too hard too early in the session.Not that I've been climbing well on vertical limestone in the meantime.
I think there is a link between boosting your ancap, and fixing your aerocap. These results are neither conclusive or particularly 'science', but short term results show improvement; this is at the cost of some bouldering power though. Hope this helps TLDREat right (eat some carbs)!Warm up lots!Drop Intensity, and do loads.
Hi Luke,Sounds familiar when you do a lot of strength and power sessions with no aerocap or conditioning before jumping on anaerobic sessions.After months of bouldering, when I return to routes I find a similar pump approach - it almost feels like an injury?So, before you bother with your power endurance sessions, condition your body.1. Yes warm up well2. Less strength work3. loads of antags 4. Cardio work and loads of low level climbing - a really solid base of building your aerobic capacity - capillarisation. Some really low level climbing, avoiding any pump at all - staying on a wall for 15 or so mins (up to 25, but v. boring)...prepare your body for the pump.Also, increase your stretching (once warmed - after a session).As aforementioned - you are powering out your body though. 3 strength sessions and then hitting power endurance...your body will burn out.If you don't want to periodise - drop one or two strength sessions and add an aerocap session and an anaerobic session. Obviously, this depends on your goals though...
As for goals, this is a difficult one. Mainly I just have sport goals and I used to think my weakness was strength related, but I have bouldered up to 7A+ and have redpointed up to 7b+ so I don't think i'm weak for the sport grades i've climbed.
I've been on routes all Summer but they have been no more than say 20 moves long, 10 - 20metres.
It looks like you are not used to doing that volume of forearm work (even if its easy climbing) and after 10 routes you're knackered regardless of grade. How tall is your wall? are you stacking routes(i.e. doing them back to back)? Quote from: Luke Owens on January 03, 2014, 01:19:17 pmAs for goals, this is a difficult one. Mainly I just have sport goals and I used to think my weakness was strength related, but I have bouldered up to 7A+ and have redpointed up to 7b+ so I don't think i'm weak for the sport grades i've climbed.In my experience this is pretty balanced, so you're not strong or weak for the grades, just middle ground. If your main goal is sport, I'd say look at what types of routes you'd be aiming for next summer, and use that as your guide. Quote from: Luke Owens on January 03, 2014, 01:19:17 pmI've been on routes all Summer but they have been no more than say 20 moves long, 10 - 20metres. So if this is what you expect for next summer, then I'd probably go with an 8 week session of mainly aerocap. Workouts like this maybe:Day 1 restDay 2 max hangs in AM or at lunch, then 30 min Aerocap in eveningDay 3 Aerocap starting at 30 and building up each week to 60+by the end of 8 weeksDay 4 Wall session / ancap(on the long end of it though 2-4min sets with good rest) Day 5 Aerocap 30-45minDay 6-7 Weekend boulder outside have fun Then do a 4 week AnCap cycle, then back to Aerocap for another 8 week, then ancap before summer. My $.02
Routes outdoors are very rarely as continually intense as the same grade of route indoors.Most routes outdoors will have a reasonable hold somewhere that you can get something back on. However indoors if you have a panel thats the same steepness all the way up, with smallish holds fairly well spaced then it's going to be a proper pumper!Time to hit the 4x4's
Yes
4x4 aka roped laps aka intervals on a rope.
So what's likely to be the best way forward? Stick to the vertical for now, on the basis that a capillary is a capillary and it doesn't matter how it got there?
As long as the desired effect is being achieved in the forearm does it matter how the aerocap is done? I currently do mine on a fingerboard with my feet on a chair. Feels the same in the forearms as traversing in the climbing wall but in reality it's not similar at all.Also, is it possible to do TOO much aerocap training?
On the AnCap cycle would you drop the Aerocap completely or just to one session a week? How many AnCap sessions a week then, 2/3?
I also think you are not resting effectively between sessions. I never used to train more than 4 days a week, usually 3. I think you're training would be more efficient if you did less. Rest your way to 8a I say! (there's nothing wrong with having a couple of weeks of slight overtraining, as long as it's followed by a chilled out week. During the heavy training period, don't expect to climb well!)
Overall I think you can't decide whether you want volume or quality in the session. You're probably kind of thinking of it as volume but then getting bored / keen to get some better ticks / wanting to be more challenged and changing horses mid-stream.
If you want to combine harder climbing and volume in one session, it makes more sense to do a route progression like: 5+, 6a, 6b, 6b+, 6c, 6c+ (perhaps just failing), 6b+, 6b, 6b, 6b, 6a+, 6a [ , … ]. That way you're hitting the hardest routes at 5th and 6th, well-warmed up but hopefully not tired, and then working down through 6 (or many more if possible) easier routes as you're getting tired.
If your only goal is to increase the capillarization in the arms, then no it doesn't matter. If you are aiming to be a better climber, then yes it matters. Doing Aerocap on a wall means you're effectively increasing your total climbing volume by a huge amount. This will go a LONG way towards improving flow and comfort in the vertical terrain.
My old typical routes session (when I was redpointing 7b+) would consist of: 5+, 6a, 6a+, 6b, 6c+/7a, 7a, then either a short rest and another 7a/+ or drop the grade to 6b and do some volume. I would focus on moving fast but efficiently, not over-gripping, improve footwork. Later, when I was redpointing 7c+/8a I would still do similar routes sessions but just with the grades bumped up a bit. - I have never climbed harder than 7b+ indoors, so don't worry too much if your indoors grades are a bit lower than outdoors.
Are you mainly redpointing or onsighting in these sessions?Also, are you climbing with 1 other person or a group of 3? I used to find that If I climbed in a 2 I'd need an extra 5 minutes rest every 3rd route or so; conversely, when climbing in group of 3 I felt it was the perfect amount of rest.
BTW - I consider most Aerocap rest/recovery work. Based on Binney's L1-L5, I do almost all of my aerocap at L1 - i.e. no pump at all.... So in the above suggested workout days, REST -Day 1 restWORKOUT - Day 2 max hangs in AM or at lunch, then 30 min Aerocap in eveningRECOVERY - Day 3 Aerocap starting at 30 and building up each week to 60+by the end of 8 weeksWORKOUT - Day 4 Wall session / ancap(on the long end of it though 2-4min sets with good rest) RECOVERY - Day 5 Aerocap 30-45minWORKOUT / REST Day 6-7 Weekend boulder outside have fun There's 2 full rest days, 2 recovery days, and 3 "workout" days. The key is making sure your AeroCap is EASY.
I thought as a 7b+ redpointer I should be doing way more and way harder routes than I am currently at the wall. i.e multiple 7a/+'s....On-sighting or repeating routes, I never redpoint indoors.
Quote from: Luke Owens on January 07, 2014, 09:47:51 am I thought as a 7b+ redpointer I should be doing way more and way harder routes than I am currently at the wall. i.e multiple 7a/+'s....On-sighting or repeating routes, I never redpoint indoors. What's you max outdoor onsight? What about on a style comparable to indoors (short, steep PE probably on quite pinchy holds)? What about on that style, 3rd or 4th day on after climbing 8 other routes that day... Max RP probably isn't that useful when we're talking about what grade you could/'should' expect to be onsighting indoors.
Did you eat more that day??
If I had to guess, i'd say you finally recovered from your overload about 2 weeks ago. IIRC, there was a bit of discussion about you doing too high of a workload and needing to back it down around x-mas. You seemed to take this to heart and dropped your workload, and increased your rest. After some time, your body finally was able to fully supercompensate for all of the training load you had put it through.
Don't underestimate the power of a proper warm up. Many days climbing have been ruined by getting on too hard a route too early and battling on through the flash pump. Looks to me like you've taken a couple of days rest and then had a proper slow warmup, oldest trick in the book for a goods days sport !