[cjsheps]

Hey UKB,

Recently I've noticed that my ability to keep my feet on the steepest climbing is pretty poor, and getting my feet back on after a cut-loose needs multiple "stabs" with momentum. I tried some leg raise-y stuff today, and my lower back was evidently my weakest link.

To sort this out, I'm planning on getting my lower back stronger, but I don't have access to weights for deadlifting. Does anyone have some advice as regards exercises I could do, or experience with sorting out a weak lower back?

Thanks in advance!

[psychomansam]

I don't quite get why you think this is your back? It might be worth thinking about your lower back for injury prevention, but this is quite clearly a core strength issue, primarily abs. Leg raises aren't a bad start. Steep bouldering (enough that you can keep your feet on) is obviously a good thing to work on.

If you mean your lower back was aching a lot, it may be that you need to watch it for injury. There's various yoga-ish type stuff you could do for it. A good way to stretch it out and mobilise it a bit is to lie flat on your back with your knees raised and feet flat on floor, then curve your lower spine up then down repeatedly. It's slightly sexual, but see how it feels - if it's stiff or aches at all.

You can also do a passive stretch - child pose.

[krymson]

I don't quite get why you think this is your back? It might be worth thinking about your lower back for injury prevention, but this is quite clearly a core strength issue, primarily abs. Leg raises aren't a bad start. Steep bouldering (enough that you can keep your feet on) is obviously a good thing to work on.

Is the lower back not considered core?

Seems a bit silly for "core" to be limited to the abs or even the the abs and obliques. Like limiting "thigh muscles" to quads because they face the front of the body instead of including both quads and hams.


I've always used weights to maintain the lower back (Good mornings and Romanian dead lifts are nice), but off the top of my head, planks and press ups with an absolutely stiff trunk are good starting exercises if your lower back isnt quite there yet. Isometric too so good for climbing.

Once it's there, i agree with sam that if you climb enough with shit feet(whether it's "good" feet on steep stuff or actually shit feet on lesser angles) while maintaining tension, your core will get a good enough work out that you barely need to do any supplementary training. Keep the feet on while moving between holds, try not to sag.

getting my feet back on after a cut-loose needs multiple "stabs" with momentum.

.
My feeling is this is related but not totally the same as the feet staying on issue which is more isometric, so while there is some synergy it still needs to be trained separately.

Sean McColl's original training video shows him doing some "gainage" thing for this. Strength obviously matters but precision is also a component.

[Sasquatch]

Recently I've noticed that my ability to keep my feet on the steepest climbing is pretty poor, and getting my feet back on after a cut-loose needs multiple "stabs" with momentum.

You mention two distinctly different movments/technique issues.  Keeping feet on, which is strongly related to posterior chain strength, and getting feet back on, which is highly related to front lever type strength which ranges from quads, abs, hip flexors, obliques, and lats/shoulders. 

It could be that both areas are weak, indicating an overall core weakness. In which case you should be looking at a more full body routine.

What equipment do you have available?

[cjsheps]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I say that my lower back was a weak link because I could feel it losing tension before my abs etc. The stuff I was doing yesterday was actually the Sean McColl stuff, as I had thought about lacking accuracy. In terms of equipment, I'm quite limited - floor stuff and whatever's at Rock Over in Manchester. Which is to say, a bar and gym rings that don't lower below waist height at the moment (WTF!).

[tomtom]

Sounds like its all core to me.

Planks (front and side) and leg raises (straight legs - see how long you can keep those heels off the ground).

[lagerstarfish]

I had thought about lacking accuracy.

much as it pains me to say something nice about him.... when we used to be climbers, I was often impressed at how accurate Jasper's foot placement was (and probably still is)

He definitely lacked some raw core and shoulder strength (compared to me), but he was able to use the absolute minimum strength/effort to get his foot to the right part of the hold and at the right angle on the first "stab". Admittedly, he was able to use strong fingers to hang around long enough to plan the footplacement, but still...

It certainly made me feel that my footwork on steep stuff needed refining - never did anything about it though.

In terms of strengthening lower back without weights - I've been trying to get my flabby carcass back into some sort of man shape and did some sets of slowish half decent form L pullups (knees slightly bent to avoid lower back injury) followed by slowish pressups. took 4 days for all those unloved core muscles to stop hurting. If muscle pain is related to strength/recruitment gains, then those sets would be a good thing to try on your bar

[LB]

That thing about the rings at Rockover is stupid. I was told they're having a refit so maybe it will change.

Otherwise, I remember them having a heavy block they used to attach a slackline too. This could be used to put your feet on. I think the weight of it would mean it wouldn't tip over like a chair might. Could be worth an ask. I doubt it will have gone far.

+1 precision.

However, the sean MacColl stuff was mainly about getting feet back on as I remember. I've been doing an exercise where I place on foot on a small hold of a steep wall, and raise my other foot to specific holds on. Then swap feet and same the other side. Can be done on a steep board. Hard to raise one foot and apply force to stay on with the other. Probably better with smaller hand holds as keeping wieght on feet becomes more important. Obvs better small footholds. Possibly good for foot swaps and active stretching also.

I use an exercise ball a lot but I think rings are the way to go as the will demand shoulder stability as well.

[duncan]

Possibly worth reposting from the similar discussion here.

Feet on - hip extensors and low back extensors

Feet off - hip flexors and abdominals

This is a simplistic representation and there is a lot of co-contraction of other muscles. The deeper abdominal muscles will be active during foot-on climbing for example.

[lagerstarfish]

Harold Lloyd should be mentioned at this point - does the footwork at 3:45 look familiar?