[Luke Owens]

I have a dream goal of one day ticking an 8a. Not just any 8a, a line worth the effort that I'll have to put in to get up it!

This line to me on the world stage would be Carte Blanche in Ceuse but closer to home I've always been inspired by Statement of Youth.

Staring up at it last Saturday I was wondering to myself what a mere punter like me would need to get up this line.

So basically, I've never been on it, or any 8a for that matter. So to anyone who's done it or has been on it etc. What does it entail? I've heard on the grapevine "You just need stamina" but then I think surely the move(s) must be pretty hard? Anyone know how hard the "hardest" move is in boulder terms? It would be great to get some insight into this route.

My previous best redpoint is Dinbren 7b+ (Short and savage) and I've bouldered up to font 7A just to give you a rough idea of where I am now.

Cheers

[standard]

Slightly off topic, but if you don't try you don't get.
So get on it and see what it's like.

At the start of the year my best red point was 7b+. I then did 3 7c's in a short window and then somehow managed an 8a+.
All this because i was encouraged to try, and just give it a go.

don't hang around doing 20 7b's.
just get on it, and try hard!


back on topic:

[standard]

Just a clarification of the above because it sounds like terrible advice.
Sure, build your pyramid, be solid at a grade, but do not be afraid to try hard stuff.

[Davo]

Doesn't sound like terrible advice to me.

If you don't try harder things than you have done before, you won't do anything harder.

Definitely get on it and find out how far away you are and what you need to work on. Then go away, train hard to mprove those things and then try it again.

Dave

[T_B]

If you want to do an 8a, another option is Mussel Beach. I've only ever been on Statement once (years ago) and remember it being quite techy, footsie and very undercutty. Quite a different style to Mussel Beach, which is relatively easy, then has a short section of powerful bouldering. It depends where your strengths lie and how much it is about doing an 8a or doing Statement. Try both and decide which one is more likely to go down. Mussel Beach is a good route (FWIW I thought it was 7c+... it's definitely v soft for 8a).

[Luke Owens]

Thanks guys, I might get on it soon to see what I'm up against when I'm down there. Would give me a good view on what I need to improve.

Doylo's video is cool, gives a good view on the route. There's also some good footage of Adam Wainwright redpointing it on Gresham's Masterclass DVD.

Anyone know of any other footage?

Also, have you guys or anyone out there been on it? Would be good to hear your thoughts and how you found the climbing!

Cheers

If you want to do an 8a, another option is Mussel Beach. I've only ever been on Statement once (years ago) and remember it being quite techy, footsie and very undercutty. Quite a different style to Mussel Beach, which is relatively easy, then has a short section of powerful bouldering. It depends where your strengths lie and how much it is about doing an 8a or doing Statement. Try both and decide which one is more likely to go down. Mussel Beach is a good route (FWIW I thought it was 7c+... it's definitely v soft for 8a).

I've never seen anyone on Mussel Beach, I think I may of watched a video of Mawson flashing it though... I think it's more about actually doing Statement than just and 8a (There are 8a's closer to home for me).

You've just made me very happy by saying it's "techy, footsie and very undercutty"! That's generally what I'm used to!

My local crag (Dinbren) is constant undercuts.

[JohnM]

Further to Davo and Standards advice about just giving it a try don't get too disheartened after the first day on it.  The chances are the first day will feel awful and you will feel a million miles away.  Try and have at least 3 sessions on it reasonably close together and only then will you have a realistic feel about how close or far away you are.  This is especially true for a route like Statement which is quite techy and requires putting a lot of force through your feet on tiny nubbins.  The first time you go up there and try and pull yourself up the route will feel desperate but the sections will start to feel much easier once you get a feel for the route.

[Luke Owens]

Further to Davo and Standards advice about just giving it a try don't get too disheartened after the first day on it.  The chances are the first day will feel awful and you will feel a million miles away.  Try and have at least 3 sessions on it reasonably close together and only then will you have a realistic feel about how close or far away you are.  This is especially true for a route like Statement which is quite techy and requires putting a lot of force through your feet on tiny nubbins.  The first time you go up there and try and pull yourself up the route will feel desperate but the sections will start to feel much easier once you get a feel for the route.

Thanks John, The only problem with getting multiple sessions on it is conditions and getting the right tides. But I know I can easily get evening sessions on it next year in the spring/summer. I think once I know what I need to work on I can gear up my training around it.

I'm actually surprised to hear you guys say it's very technical and on the feet. I'd always had it in my head it was a stamina driven route. Interesting....

[SA Chris]

Can't it be both?

[Luke Owens]

Can't it be both?

Of course it can, but I had never heard anyone say it was technical and a lot on the feet. I had only heard it was stamina driven previously...

[tim palmer]

I thought it was cruxy and technical (with poor feet) at the top, the initial 3/4 is a bit more powerful but easier to some reasonable rests. 

The only slight piece of advice I would have (from recent experience), is that if you are going to need multiple sessions to redpoint a route you are best to go for one which is fairly conditions proof and I have always considered LPT to be rather fickle conditions-wise (although I have only climbed there a little so could be wrong).  Obviously if your heart is set on S of Y, go for it, but it might get rather frustating.     

[Luke Owens]

I thought it was cruxy and technical (with poor feet) at the top, the initial 3/4 is a bit more powerful but easier to some reasonable rests. 

The only slight piece of advice I would have (from recent experience), is that if you are going to need multiple sessions to redpoint a route you are best to go for one which is fairly conditions proof and I have always considered LPT to be rather fickle conditions-wise (although I have only climbed there a little so could be wrong).  Obviously if your heart is set on S of Y, go for it, but it might get rather frustating.     

Thanks Tim! I'm guessing the crux is at the end then? Are the holds on the heel hook traverse good?

Regarding the conditions I know it will probably be frustrating if I was to spend multiple sessions on it but that's why I wanted to get an idea of what the route required and was all about. If I knew the specifics of what to train then I'd hope I wouldn't need as many sessions to get it done.

But really when I think about it I think only I can answer that question by getting on it.

In terms of strength, Can anyone give me an idea of how hard the hardest move is?

Cheers

[Fiend]

have a dream goal of one day ticking an 8a. Not just any 8a, a line worth the effort that I'll have to put in to get up it!
....
I think it's more about actually doing Statement than just an 8a

Pfffft, that sort of genuine quality-seeking attitude is never going to get you up it.
You need to focus more on puerile grade-chasing, preferably something that is both shit and soft-touch 



P.S. I always thought Statement looked cool for the traversy bit on the lip.

[Davo]

I agree with Tim about the conditions aspect but I guess you are fairly local so not as much of an issue as it is to anyone travelling over.

Have been on it a couple of times and to be honest I got spanked. Have done a couple of the other 8as down there such as Mussell Beach and Parasite and fell off the top of battle of the Little Big Orme. Statement was harder for me.

Thought the initial heel hooky traverse was okay and then there is a tough beefy section with poor feet. Then a bit that is okay and then a thin techy traverse with poor feet and a thin final hard move. Classic route that schooled me.

Certainly easier 8as out there to do but it is an old Skool classic.

What about something at Dinbren like Elite Syncopations which I thought was great?

Dave

[tim palmer]

In terms of strength, Can anyone give me an idea of how hard the hardest move is?

I don't think it really boils down to strength. I think it might be just something you just have to try.  I thought it was quite technical, and probably if you are good on your feet with lots of mileage on rock it might feel quite straight forward, if you (like me) are all front-wheel drive you might have to pull quite hard, but if you are looking for a font grade for the top crux you might be going about it in the wrong way.

Certainly easier 8as out there to do but it is an old Skool classic.

Strangely although I am poor to terrible at technical climbing I found S of Y quite soft for the grade, I thought there wasn't much between it and bad bad boy.

[Luke Owens]

I agree with Tim about the conditions aspect but I guess you are fairly local so not as much of an issue as it is to anyone travelling over.

Have been on it a couple of times and to be honest I got spanked. Have done a couple of the other 8as down there such as Mussell Beach and Parasite and fell off the top of battle of the Little Big Orme. Statement was harder for me.

Thought the initial heel hooky traverse was okay and then there is a tough beefy section with poor feet. Then a bit that is okay and then a thin techy traverse with poor feet and a thin final hard move. Classic route that schooled me.

Certainly easier 8as out there to do but it is an old Skool classic.

What about something at Dinbren like Elite Syncopations which I thought was great?

Dave

Takes me about an hour to get to the orme so not too far.

Some good insight into the route there Dave, cheers!

I'd have to put a lot of effort into climbing something so hard so if that effort was for such a classic route it would mean way more than something like Elite, as much as I love Dinbren as my local crag I've heard people talk about Elite saying "Hideous and crimpy", "Not 3 stars" & "Soft at 8a and not that good". But talk to anyone about Statement and all you hear is "Classic".

Plus, the line itself inspires me and there's something about the Orme I just love the place!

I don't think it really boils down to strength. I think it might be just something you just have to try.  I thought it was quite technical, and probably if you are good on your feet with lots of mileage on rock it might feel quite straight forward, if you (like me) are all front-wheel drive you might have to pull quite hard, but if you are looking for a font grade for the top crux you might be going about it in the wrong way.

Thanks Tim, this is exactly what I wanted to hear. The last think I wanted was it to be "It all boils down to one hard font "blah blah" move where you have no choice but to just pull hard"... haha.

[Davo]

[/quote]

Strangely although I am poor to terrible at technical climbing I found S of Y quite soft for the grade, I thought there wasn't much between it and bad bad boy.
[/quote]

Well I flashed Bad Bad Boy but failed on Statement at least twice. Not sure what that says about my climbing.

[Davo]

Personally I thought Elite Syncopations was a good route. Yeah a bit crimpy but not really that bad. Yes it is easy for 8a but not massively.

Overall I thought it was a cool Clwyd route but yes you are right it isn't as good as Statement.

I also quite liked Gwennan, one hard boulder move but very fun. Easier if you are tall

[ben]

I know nothing about the Ormes or Dinbren, but can give some input from someone at I guess a similar level to you.  Similarly I generally boulder up to 7a/7a+ and have previously redpointed 7b+ but  had never spent more than 1-2 sessions on a route.  This year my mate (who climbs at a similar level to me) and I decided to do some 'puerile grade-chasing' and try and redpoint an 8a.  We chose a route (at Cheddar) which was practical for us both to get to one evening a week and, as per Tims advice below, one which is pretty conditions independent (i.e. it stays dry in the rain and doesn't seep over summer).

It's been a bit of an epic siege and probably (as per the 'to redpoint or not to redpoint' thread) we could perhaps have gone away and got fitter/stronger after getting to know the route rather than sieging it.  However I've really enjoyed the process..  from the initial couple of sessions of falling off every move, gradually working out beta, then refining it and refining it, starting to make longer links and all whilst getting stronger on it in the process. 

note:  my mate did it last week and I fell off the 'easy' finishing moves last night after all the hard climbing    hopefully next week.. watch the YYFY thread    

(15 sessions and counting, although each session has only been a couple of hours due to daylight)

[Luke Owens]

Ben that's awesome! Great to hear of an all out siege! It must be great to be so close now, knowing it's not a case of "if" but "when". I'm sure you'll get it next session!

Inspiring stuff especially hearing you climb/climbed a similar level to me!

Have you been doing anything else other than the route? (Extra training, other routes etc.?)

[AJM]

We chose a route (at Cheddar) which was practical for us both to get to one evening a week and, as per Tims advice below, one which is pretty conditions independent (i.e. it stays dry in the rain and doesn't seep over summer).

Which one? Have been trying right hand man on and off, but been struggling with belayers so haven't been on it terribly frequently...

[Luke Owens]

We chose a route (at Cheddar) which was practical for us both to get to one evening a week and, as per Tims advice below, one which is pretty conditions independent (i.e. it stays dry in the rain and doesn't seep over summer).

Which one? Have been trying right hand man on and off, but been struggling with belayers so haven't been on it terribly frequently...

I'm pretty sure he's going to say Right Hand Man!

[ben]

I'm pretty sure he's going to say Right Hand Man!

mind reader    yep..   in fact Andy I think you maybe emailed me some beta via UKC earlier in the year?   If it doesn't go next week and we run out of evening light then maybe I'll get in touch to belay/be belayed on it for a half day sometime!

luke - I've got two small kiddies and hence its been pretty much my only climbing during that period, apart from the old session in my garage.  I think this is another reason its taken/is taking so long, I quite quickly could do all the moves but having the power endurance to link it was something else and more fitness would have helped.. the redpoint crux keeps getting higher and higher!

[Luke Owens]

luke - I've got two small kiddies and hence its been pretty much my only climbing during that period, apart from the old session in my garage. 

Good effort, I admire the commitment! I'm a family man myself (Just the 1!). Since our little one was born my climbing has been a bit more "gung ho"!

the redpoint crux keeps getting higher and higher!

That's great improvement and a testament to sticking at it!

[Doylo]

Statement is probably the 2nd hardest 8a down there (much harder than BB). Nothing harder than v3/4 but a fair bit of it and the last traverse sees people off time and time again especially the last moves reaching up the groove. You can climb quite solidly to there but the feet get so sequency and tensiony you can be cruising then suddenly you're off. It always had a reputation as one to flash in the 90s but hardly anyone manages it first go now. A sign of the times! Fantastic onsight by Emma Twyford. I d have a few sessions next year pal, gotta start somewhere...

That's video makes me feel old!

[AJM]

mind reader    yep..   in fact Andy I think you maybe emailed me some beta via UKC earlier in the year?   If it doesn't go next week and we run out of evening light then maybe I'll get in touch to belay/be belayed on it for a half day sometime!

Ah I might well have done! I probably do it totally differently now, I've tweaked the sequence so many times, little tweaks here and there.

Yeah, do.

I think my high point has been hitting the good straight down pull crimp under the third but not quite getting it solid. Dare I ask, how far into the easy ground did you fall? Are we talking easy as in "anything after the rockover" or easy as in "by the last clip"

[Kingy]

There is footage of Ben Moon doing S of Y (in the early 90's) in the Extreme 80's DVD, alongside Jerry doing Liquid Ambar

[ben]

Sorry Luke - this has turned into a bit of a thread hijack!

I think my high point has been hitting the good straight down pull crimp under the third but not quite getting it solid. Dare I ask, how far into the easy ground did you fall? Are we talking easy as in "anything after the rockover" or easy as in "by the last clip"

Andy - Thanks for the offer to get on RHM.. I definitely want to get it done while the momentum is still there, will be in touch

I guess the term 'easy ground' is all relative, but I was in the 'anything after the rockover' territory, one move from getting the rest under the mini-roof before the final few feet..