[Oldmanmatt]

Prompted by the recent question, elsewhere in the forum, about returning to climbing after childbirth.

And given an extraordinary degree of interest in a "Ladies only" session at the wall.

What do you think such a session should consist of?

Given that there would be a great female coach/instructor/trainer running the group.

We're talking both experienced and novices in a mixed group.

(And knowing 99.9% of the posters in UKB are male.

Can you guys ask your respective Better Halves, what they would like from such a session?)

1 hour or 2?

Fun & fitness, or intense workout?

Aimed at novice climbers, or a higher degree?

Progression, or just a workout class?

[andyd]

I'd be a bit narked if I showed up to a wall I was used to visiting and I wasn't allowed to climb because my pink bits were the wrong type.

[Oldmanmatt]

Nah, not Ladies only in the building! A Ladies only class/group.

Yes, I'd be more than narked, too.

[Bubba]

(And knowing 99.9% of the posters in UKB are male.

Only 76% of users who've actively selected a gender on their profile are male...but not sure how representative of the entire membership that figure is 

[slackline]

My better half doesn't climb I'm afraid.

[lagerstarfish]

My better half doesn't climb I'm afraid.

would she be more likely to climb if "women only" groups were available?

she might have a very different climbing experience if she was away from your testosterone fuelled, macho posturing and patronising put-downs






 

[Oldmanmatt]

My better half doesn't climb I'm afraid.

would she be more likely to climb if "women only" groups were available?

she might have a very different climbing experience if she was away from your testosterone fuelled, macho posturing and patronising put-downs






 

That seems to be the point raised by the women who have requested the session. It appears that even the most modern male is unable to get through a full hour, in a mixed class, without inappropriate references to Lycra. But I'd really like to know what  Female climbers and potential climbers would see as a worth-while, regular, session. More coaching orientated or more climbing specific exercise/fitness training?

Also, I've been told my OP will have put off most female responders before they even read the thread and that I'm crap at this.
I apologise.

This is why they need to be free of our idiocy sometimes....
 

[SA Chris]

[Lund]

We've got this at the yoga wall.  Not very popular.  The majority of the female climbers don't like it as its too patronising - here's a session you can join if you're scared by the boys.  They feel it's misguided.  Women centric coaching, yes.  Women only sessions, no.

There's a minority that do like it.

[magpie]

We've got this at the yoga wall.  Not very popular.  The majority of the female climbers don't like it as its too patronising - here's a session you can join if you're scared by the boys.  They feel it's misguided.  Women centric coaching, yes.  Women only sessions, no.

This pretty much says all I was going to.  I don't like the idea at all.  I think more female coaches running sessions is a great idea and would be very helpful, probably for guys as well as girls, but I don't like the idea of segregating female climbers off on their own so they don't have to be around the big scary men. 

If someone at the wall is bothered by comments on lycra or their appearance, or whatever, then they need to be complaining about it and having something done about the attitude and behaviour of the (presumably in this case) male climbers making these comments rather than promoting the misogynistic attitude by keeping the little women out of the way of the proper climbers, if you are attending a class run by a climbing facility then it is NOT appropriate for other climbers in the group to be making remarks which make other patrons uncomfortable. 

I'll say no more for fear of ending up properly on my soap box on the subject. 

[iain]

My better half shares the Lund/Magpie view, if there's any inappropriate behaviour or remarks in a group it should be nipped in the bud at the time.

ending up properly on my soap box on the subject. 

Please do, worthy AND potentially entertaining 

[Stabbsy]

To give an alternate view to the above, the new bouldering wall in York runs sessions like this. From the outside, they seem to be both popular and well received. Rather than a women-only session when the wall is closed to blokes, it's more of an informal night where women come down and climb together.

Like most walls, the majority of climbers are men and they often get up stuff by using strength over technique. In such an environment, it's easy for new climbers to think they can't do something because they aren't strong enough, when they're more than capable if they apply a bit of technique. So a bunch of women climbing together, working out problems and helping each other out makes sense, especially for people new to the sport.

It's not a structured session, but there's usually a few more experienced female climbers around to provide advice and occasionally a bit of informal coaching laid on. Like anything, it's going to suit some people and not others, but there's obviously some people appreciate it as it's still going on. If nothing else, it gives women a chance to meet someone to climb with that might actually climb in a similar way to them, rather than climbing with thugs who just want to swing around on massive holds on steep walls.

[Muenchener]

You might want to try asking the ladies at womenclimb.co.uk. I met a couple of them this summer in venues rangiing from Ailefroide to Llanberis, they seem a friendly bunch and they have (e.g.) an article about ladies' sessions at walls in Stoke & Carlisle on their blog.

[slackline]

would she be more likely to climb if "women only" groups were available?

she might have a very different climbing experience if she was away from your testosterone fuelled, macho posturing and patronising put-downs


 

No, she doesn't like heights....or exercise in general come to that (a couple of laps round Norfolk Park or wandering into town is about her limit).

@Oldmanmatt : There is also the http://pinnacleclub.co.uk/ you could try canvassing for opinion.  Once you've got ideas you could do as Monolith did for his whisky survey and use Google Form to collect responses as to what would be popular or not in a more structured manner and ease the hassle of sorting through typed repsones.

[SA Chris]

Or you could see if it would be put up for discussion here?

http://www.theclimbingacademy.com/blog/2013/8/20/womens-climbing-symposium-nov-2nd-2013.html

Certainly seems like subject for debate? 

[a dense loner]

Debate? Why is it worth a debate? Try it and if it looks like no ones getting any benefit stop it. It's like anal sex, you don't know if you don't go

[rich d]

 

Debate? Why is it worth a debate? Try it and if it looks like no ones getting any benefit stop it. It's like anal sex, you don't know if you don't go

off topic but did you enjoy taking it up the arse then Dense?

[Oldmanmatt]

You lot never cease to amaze me...

I often end up pissing myself with laughter.

When I last checked the thread in the late morning it was already drifting (within two or three comments)...

But,

Damn!


Now I'm creased up!

From "what would make a good session for a group of ladies, on the wall?" We got all the way to anal sex!

Mags, there really haven't been any misogynistic attacks at the Bunker! I'd really meant that as a light hearted thing and it was speculation only.

The sessions were something that a lot of women have enquired about and to be honest, we haven't asked why (there are probably many different reasons after all).

Thanks for the feedback though, lots of useful stuff.

I knew it was going to be a sensitive topic. Polly didn't think so but I've had similar situations in the past.

Still like to hear from more women, if anyone's still reading.

Dense..... Really?

Did it hurt?

[tomtom]

:D wish I could wad from Tapatalk.

[lagerstarfish]

would she be more likely to climb if "women only" groups were available?

she might have a very different climbing experience if she was away from your testosterone fuelled, macho posturing and patronising put-downs


 

No, she doesn't like heights....or exercise in general come to that (a couple of laps round Norfolk Park or wandering into town is about her limit).

so she might be interested in a group that combines non-strenuous climbing with wandering around shops?

[slackline]

No, she doesn't like heights....or exercise in general come to that (a couple of laps round Norfolk Park or wandering into town is about her limit).

so she might be interested in a group that combines non-strenuous climbing with wandering around shops?

Only it's aid (i.e. escalators & non-glass elevators).

[magpie]

Mags, there really haven't been any misogynistic attacks at the Bunker! I'd really meant that as a light hearted thing and it was speculation only.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that, more just saying that IF something like that went on anywhere, and was why women were hesitant to climb, then it should be dealt with rather than removing the women from the situation.

The sessions were something that a lot of women have enquired about and to be honest, we haven't asked why (there are probably many different reasons after all).

I think that's your answer, if you're getting people asking about it then there must be a demand for it where you are?  Maybe the best thing is to start it up and see how attendance is, that would help you gauge the interest locally?

[loooeese]

We've got this at the yoga wall.  Not very popular.  The majority of the female climbers don't like it as its too patronising - here's a session you can join if you're scared by the boys.  They feel it's misguided.  Women centric coaching, yes.  Women only sessions, no.

This pretty much says all I was going to.  I don't like the idea at all.  I think more female coaches running sessions is a great idea and would be very helpful, probably for guys as well as girls, but I don't like the idea of segregating female climbers off on their own so they don't have to be around the big scary men. 

This was pretty much exactly my first thought, and now I wouldn't even consider joining this kind of session. But then when I think back to starting to climb, and starting to boulder in particular I can see the possible value of sessions like this.

I think it can be hard for women to start bouldering, especially if like me they began climbing with ropes. You take all the technique you've learned and apply it to bouldering and, for example, you do a problem that is hard for you, and you're really pleased with. Then a guy that has no technique swans up and burls/reaches through it. It's hard not to be discouraged an go back to the ropes where you can hold your own.

So a session with just women, where (if you're competitive like me) you can compare yourself to people with similar strengths and heights could be very encouraging to those just starting out. And a focus on style and technique, and not just getting to the top might help in future when those guys are muscling up the problems.

[LB]

After a word with my other half, she had views on more social women's only sessions and also on specific women's training sessions:

Personally, she doesn't involve herself with the women's only sessions available to her, but this is because she has female friends to climb with already and tends to organise to climb with them as a group regularly anyway. She definitely enjoys the different atmosphere this provides some of the time, because she finds greater encouragement from watching a female climber achieve something, and great self belief, than watching a male (particularly a tall, burly male) climber do the same thing, which can be almost discouraging or at least irritating (as said above). She does get a kick burning off said tall, burly male climber though. She also said sometimes its nice socially to have an all female group some of the time. Basically, she agrees with what said above about it being nice, particularly for those just getting into climbing or moving to a new place.

Specifically on training, she thinks that a good coach will manage to directly address the weaknesses and goals of the individuals within the group, but if there are men in the group, their  influence over the direction of the session can be deliterious to the effectiveness of the session for the women. Both these observatiosn came from personal experience and I think it is worth noting that the men in the group would have been relatively inexperienced with both climbing and training. Personally, I wondered whether their attitude to what was needed to be a good climber and what constituted effective training was both more naive and more based on personal experience, compared to someone who had been climbing longer. Basically, she thinks female only training session shouldn't be necessary, but she can see that some unisex sessions can be run in a manner that can exclude women.

[Durbs]

At Craggy 2, they have a ladies night (Tuesday), which is along the lines of a female teacher giving training/tips/advice to the ladies. I think they used to also offer a free cup of tea, not sure if that bit still happens though.

My other-half doesn't go to them particularly, as it tends to be a case of we go when we can, but I know she enjoys climbing with more women when they're around. Also as we go together (and I climb like a girl) I guess there's less of a reason for her to make an effort to go these then an single/group of ladies.

Also of note, is there tend to be quite a few extra men on Tuesdays, coincidence I'm sure

[battery]

TCA in Glasgow has a ladies night run by a couple of the female staff who also happen to be awesome climbers. I regularly attended when I lived up there, partly for the social aspect, partly as I found it really upped my psyche climbing with people who are like me (in terms of physical capabilities etc.) and because the sessions were really responsive to the needs of the people who were there.

Some weeks are very relaxed, some are structured sessions to work on specific weeknesses suggested by the individuals in the group. I really miss these sessions and have suggested Rockover run the same but with no success so far.

I climb with men, including my boyfriend regularly and really enjoy it but I regularly climb problems in a completely different way to them. Men and women are physically different at the end of the day. Whilst it is inspiring to watch awesome climbers and beasts do amazing things, in terms of usefulness to your climbing I always get most out of climbing with people with similar abilities to me.

[lagerstarfish]

just a reminder to climbing wall owners/managers...

I am still available for hire to fail spectacularly on problems of all grades using well developed "tall, strong, macho, nature-conquering man" techniques. This has been shown to significantly increase the overall happiness of more reasonably sized climbers who prefer to use technique and movement skills to enjoy their climbing.

reasonable rates