[mrjonathanr]

Try Instincts, roomy knuckles, excellent shoe. Much better than 5.10 for me.

[Duma]

Not vegan though?

[mrjonathanr]

tommytwotone is vegan?

[Duma]

Sorry, thought it was a suggestion to adge.

[mrjonathanr]

No problem... on the other hand, aren't the new Instinct VS's all synthetic?

[frankstoneline]

No problem... on the other hand, aren't the new Instinct VS's all synthetic?

Think thats the instinct slipper thats all synthetic, but my memory is foggy at the moment.

[AndyR]

Well, in my time I've been through various incarnations by Croft (Jesus, anyone else remember them?),

Croft B3's were my second pair of boots after a very knackered pair of hand-me-down EB's.
Not bad for brick edge cruising IIRC...

[rich d]

You can't beat boreal jokers! spent 6 months perving over them before being able to buy them. Then 6 months breaking them in, only for them to still fucking cripple you, as tight shoes were where it was at

[dave]

I'm amazed that shoes only half a size under street size are painful, there's something wrong there. Either your feet are just totally the wrong shape for velcros, or you wear your street shoes about a size too small. If I bought velcros only a half size down they would feel baggy as fuck, I go 1.5 sizes down on almost any rockshoe, except shit like teams or dragons where the sizing is all to cock. Om sporticas I would have to go down 2.5 or 3 sizes as their sizing man is on crack.

i would like to see you wearing evolvs 1.5 sizes down from your street shoes...
even if a also wear my anasazis 1.5 sizes down i cannot agree with your dogma of "every brand 1.5 down". This would definitly not work with boreals blades and i couldn´t imagine my feet in 1.5 downsized dragons or hornets where street=climbing-shoesize.
It´s different with every brand, and sometimes different within one brand, an there is no general downsizing size for climbing shoes.

So hang on, out of all the rockshoes available you've picked 4 examples there, I said myself its not every shoe, but back before I realised that boreal rubber is crap I routinely wore boreals for years and every single pair of boreals I wore, from punter shoes to stringers and jokers were 1.5 sizes down, sportivas were 2.5 sizes down (due to their consistently 1size out sizing policy) as were scarpa, and lo and behold as are fivetens now, with the exception of the more extreme down toed models like teams and drags which are more like street sizes. Fuck knows about evolvs, they didn't exist when I was still slumming it with other brands. I think I' ve tried on enough shoes over the years to have a feeleing for what size, disregarding weird outliers, that I would try on first, and its usually 1.5 down (2.5 formsportivas) for all the brands I've ever tried.

[crimp]

Well, in my time I've been through various incarnations by Croft (Jesus, anyone else remember them?),

Croft B3's were my second pair of boots after a very knackered pair of hand-me-down EB's.
Not bad for brick edge cruising IIRC...

had a pair of they myself. Still fondly clearly picture them. Grey boot with red trim and laces. With an equal height rand right round boot. Over the moon when i got them.

And bricks in and out walls in school gyms it was at the time.

[SA Chris]

Croft B3s were my first too. I remember having to remove some crap cardboard bit from the heel as it dug in and hurt like bollocks.

[Zen]

I wear the newer model 5.10 Teams and while they aren't everyones cup of tea, I find them astonishing. The toe box is sublime and the sensitivity is amazing but the heel has started to sag after 3/4 of a year use; the only downside. I decided to try and remedy this by looking at other shoes but there was nothing even close to the these in any respect, bar one:

5.10 Dragons.

I tried these on - same toe box, same cracking fit, (more-or-less the) same rubber, same sensitivity AND the heel fitted perfectly. I can't wait to get them, I would swear by 5.10's if you have the correct foot shape.

In fact, has anyone that regularly wears Teams tried the La Sportiva Solution? I hear these are good alternatives with the same performance but more comfort. I'm dubious unless someone can tell me otherwise haha.

[Richie Crouch]

I find the solutions round off on the toe box faster and flatten out more than the teams. The heel fits me slightly better but I preferred the narrowness and increased 'feel' or sensitivity on the team heel. The best heel I have used is the instinct vs... but the rubber is a bit too hard for me. Going to resol(v)e them in stealth when they go through and see if it is the answer!

[cha1n]

As mentioned, the solutions are a bit stiffer and feel less accurate than the teams/dragons and whilst the heel on the solution tends to fit people better, it's very rigid - which can be a problem. That said, many of the world's top climbers wear them so let's face it, they must be pretty decent and more than capable of climbing anything.

I've just bought a pair of the new (blue)blackwings and the heel is much better than the old blackwings (which were basically team heels). They are quite soft, so possibly not as versatile as the dragons but I'm trying my best to not to have to break in another pair of dragons. You might think the dragons are the same shape as the teams but they are definitely pointier and they push my long toes up too much. I'm no in hurry to climb vertical walls on microcrimps so I don't envision the softness will be a problem any time soon...

[Zen]

Richie, I tried on a pair of Instinct VS's after I was recommended them to solve my Team heel issues. Unfortunately, I really didn't like any aspect of the shoe, too much rigidity and support and with Teams being my first and only pair of rock shoes the Scarpa's felt like slippers! I'm glad you've found something that fits, and here's hoping that Stealth-ing up that heel works some wonders!

cha1n, have you tried all of the shoes you've mentioned? The new Blackwings look tempting if your heel fitting suggestion is correct, but I don't like the lack of rubber on the toe. I'm all for soft shoes though, would you recommend them as better-fitting alternatives to the Teams?

[cha1n]

Yes, I've tried all of the shoes I mentioned. I've had 2 pairs of dragons, a pair of solutions that I sold on within a week. I currently use dragons/teams as my main shoes butI'm trying to ween myself off of the dragons because they take so long for me to break in.

If you've tried the dragons on and you were happy with the fit, they are a much more versatile shoe than the others. They are the only shoe I've used that I'm happy using on steep or vertical ground. Mainly because you can adjust the laces to suit,  tighten them up fully for edgy stuff, loosen them up a bit for smeary stuff, etc. They'd also be my shoe of choice if I only had space for one pair in a bag or something. Oh and almost forgot, because they're more pointy than the other shoes, they're excellent in pockets - the teams feel so rounded in comparison. So Yeh... Excellent shoe, just very painful for me.

Lastly, would I recommend the new blackwings as better fitting teams? Not really, they're more like narrower, softer arrowheads with an improved dragon heel. I also think the blackwings will be really durable as the stealth hf rubber on them looks very thick. I certainly won't be getting rid of my teams from my bag. Teams are for roofs/stuff needing toehooks and BWs for the rest. 9 months for the team heel isn't too bad really, my big toe is close to going through by then anyway!