Quote from: HPclinic on September 06, 2013, 03:06:21 pmHi, it sounds like you could be compressing or irritating a nerve. The median nerve travels down the middle of your arm. I would check that your neck movements are full ie forward, backward and rotatory movements. You are feeling it when you are moving and it is down by your side so i would also check that your shoulder on the side of the problem isn't dropped as this may be tractioning/stretching your neck on this side. You may also be doing this compensatory movement when you climb. I would try doing exercises to encourage shoulder elevation such as shoulder presses but make sure you are reaching up and streching your side trunk muscles and you will then not be depressing your shoulder. See how you go and get back to me if you are compensating. regards MattFirstly, thank you for replying to my post.I ended up going to see the physio at my local wall and she said that I had the early stages of tennis elbow and had done for quite a while. She suggested that due to all the different exercises I had been doing to fix it for the last few months I had staved off full blown tennis elbow but kept it low lever and persistent. Because I never knew exactly what it was I hadn't done enough of any particular treatment to fix it but it was enough to keep it from progressing. She massages a rather big knot out of my forearm muscle just below the elbow tendon and advised me to keep doing this and to do palm down wrist curls and ice it.It does seem to be getting better and its nowhere near as pressured as it was before so I think its working but since you mention my shoulders I will try to explain what I am feeling there. The issue is with the right arm to start with. Putting my neck backwards, forwards is fine and doesn't stretch much in the neck. When the neck rolls to the left or right I can feel a stretch. Going to the left feels tighter (so the right hand side of the neck muscles are tighter?) If I stretch my arm above my head with a slightly bent arm I can feel a twinge in the front of the deltoid where it joins the bicep and I definitely feel it more in the right arm than the left. I have started doing some shoulder presses as you suggested with 12.5kg in each hand and can do about 12 reps before I get fatigued but I have only done these for about a week now (every few days and perhaps 3 sets each time).Should I be upping the weight and lowering the reps or vice versa and does what I have said above make any sense. I don't think the physio is particularly climbing focussed but she seemed to know what she was talking about so it would be good to have a second opinion / advice.Thanks again.
Hi, it sounds like you could be compressing or irritating a nerve. The median nerve travels down the middle of your arm. I would check that your neck movements are full ie forward, backward and rotatory movements. You are feeling it when you are moving and it is down by your side so i would also check that your shoulder on the side of the problem isn't dropped as this may be tractioning/stretching your neck on this side. You may also be doing this compensatory movement when you climb. I would try doing exercises to encourage shoulder elevation such as shoulder presses but make sure you are reaching up and streching your side trunk muscles and you will then not be depressing your shoulder. See how you go and get back to me if you are compensating. regards Matt
Quote from: HPclinic on August 30, 2013, 04:24:14 pmQuote from: masonwoods101 on August 30, 2013, 02:14:53 pmHi, for about a year I've been having problems with my elbows, neck and back. Initially I stopped climbing I stopped climbing for about 3 months but the problems didn't go, if anything they got worse. i tried doing the tendonitis weight exercises but thu didnt seem to help (after a few months of being very strict). More recently through lots of stretching, shoulder shrugs and hot baths after climbing the symptoms have calmed down (ie my elbows rarely hurt) but I can't quite get rid of the fore arm tension and neck pain. My forearms seem tense in the morning but I stretch them a lot throughout the day. It seems that too much climbing only makes my neck stuff and forearms a little stiff an the only thing that gets the inside of my elbows hurting is day to day activities (drying hair and using my phone etc). Wondering if there is any specific back workouts I could do to finally get rid of my problems. Hope all that rambling made sense and thanks in advance for any repliesDaveHi, when you have bilateral (both sides) problems we would tend to look more centrally ie your neck. It sounds as if you are loading the neck and overstretching the brachial plexus (the nerves coming out of your neck into your arm). It would make sense that the shoulder shrugs helped because you are in effect unloading the neck. If you are sitting most of the day check that you are not slumping and depressing your shoulders. Also when you are bouldering make sure you are elongating (lengthening) your trunk and reaching upwards with your arms when traversing. Just a check because we see climbers that have neck and shoulder problems and they are not able to let there side trunk/back muscles lengthen and tend to pull downwards. Continue with your shoulder shrugs and also try shoulder press (arms above head) exercises with light to medium weights making sure you elevate your shoulders. If you have better shoulder and trunk positions you will feel stronger and also use your forearms less. Let me know if this helps. Quote from: HPclinic on August 30, 2013, 12:44:28 pmQuote from: mark20 on August 23, 2013, 12:59:03 pmI sometimes get a dull ache on the inside of my elbows, near where the bicep joins the elbow. It's been happening for a couple of years now, usually my right arm, and after a few sessions of powerful bouldering- anything really slappy or big locks between holds on steep ground. Usually clears up again in a couple of days with rest / pressups, etc. But it's becoming a bit annoying and I can't seem to completely get rid of it so any advice would be great, thanksHi, you could be compressing a nerve (median) when you are fully bending your elbow with a biceps contraction ie in locking out. Do you get any pins and needles or numbness? There are some nerve movements/mobilisations that may help, these involve taking your arm out to the side, straightening your elbow with your fingers pointing downwards (starting position is like carrying a tray) and look towards your hand. Then bend the elbow again and look the opposite way. Do about 30 of these twice daily. The other observations we would want to look at would be your shoulder position as you may be compensating. It could also be that you are compressing and loading the elbow and the joint is crumbling a bit. Ultimately it goes away which is good but it may require an assessment if it's getting worse or not clearing up. Let me know how you get on.Regards MattHi again, just noticed that you said both elbows can be a problem. If this is the case the above comments are still relevant but you may also be dropping/depressing your shoulders when locking out and causing a more general nerve stretch. Try lots of shoulder shrugs and look at your shoulder positions when climbing ie don't let them drop too much. regardsregardsmattQuote from: HPclinic on August 30, 2013, 12:44:28 pmQuote from: mark20 on August 23, 2013, 12:59:03 pmI sometimes get a dull ache on the inside of my elbows, near where the bicep joins the elbow. It's been happening for a couple of years now, usually my right arm, and after a few sessions of powerful bouldering- anything really slappy or big locks between holds on steep ground. Usually clears up again in a couple of days with rest / pressups, etc. But it's becoming a bit annoying and I can't seem to completely get rid of it so any advice would be great, thanksHi, you could be compressing a nerve (median) when you are fully bending your elbow with a biceps contraction ie in locking out. Do you get any pins and needles or numbness? There are some nerve movements/mobilisations that may help, these involve taking your arm out to the side, straightening your elbow with your fingers pointing downwards (starting position is like carrying a tray) and look towards your hand. Then bend the elbow again and look the opposite way. Do about 30 of these twice daily. The other observations we would want to look at would be your shoulder position as you may be compensating. It could also be that you are compressing and loading the elbow and the joint is crumbling a bit. Ultimately it goes away which is good but it may require an assessment if it's getting worse or not clearing up. Let me know how you get on.Regards MattHi just noticed the word crumbling, sorry meant grumbling!! Hope this didn't alarm you. RegardsMatt
Quote from: masonwoods101 on August 30, 2013, 02:14:53 pmHi, for about a year I've been having problems with my elbows, neck and back. Initially I stopped climbing I stopped climbing for about 3 months but the problems didn't go, if anything they got worse. i tried doing the tendonitis weight exercises but thu didnt seem to help (after a few months of being very strict). More recently through lots of stretching, shoulder shrugs and hot baths after climbing the symptoms have calmed down (ie my elbows rarely hurt) but I can't quite get rid of the fore arm tension and neck pain. My forearms seem tense in the morning but I stretch them a lot throughout the day. It seems that too much climbing only makes my neck stuff and forearms a little stiff an the only thing that gets the inside of my elbows hurting is day to day activities (drying hair and using my phone etc). Wondering if there is any specific back workouts I could do to finally get rid of my problems. Hope all that rambling made sense and thanks in advance for any repliesDaveHi, when you have bilateral (both sides) problems we would tend to look more centrally ie your neck. It sounds as if you are loading the neck and overstretching the brachial plexus (the nerves coming out of your neck into your arm). It would make sense that the shoulder shrugs helped because you are in effect unloading the neck. If you are sitting most of the day check that you are not slumping and depressing your shoulders. Also when you are bouldering make sure you are elongating (lengthening) your trunk and reaching upwards with your arms when traversing. Just a check because we see climbers that have neck and shoulder problems and they are not able to let there side trunk/back muscles lengthen and tend to pull downwards. Continue with your shoulder shrugs and also try shoulder press (arms above head) exercises with light to medium weights making sure you elevate your shoulders. If you have better shoulder and trunk positions you will feel stronger and also use your forearms less. Let me know if this helps. Quote from: HPclinic on August 30, 2013, 12:44:28 pmQuote from: mark20 on August 23, 2013, 12:59:03 pmI sometimes get a dull ache on the inside of my elbows, near where the bicep joins the elbow. It's been happening for a couple of years now, usually my right arm, and after a few sessions of powerful bouldering- anything really slappy or big locks between holds on steep ground. Usually clears up again in a couple of days with rest / pressups, etc. But it's becoming a bit annoying and I can't seem to completely get rid of it so any advice would be great, thanksHi, you could be compressing a nerve (median) when you are fully bending your elbow with a biceps contraction ie in locking out. Do you get any pins and needles or numbness? There are some nerve movements/mobilisations that may help, these involve taking your arm out to the side, straightening your elbow with your fingers pointing downwards (starting position is like carrying a tray) and look towards your hand. Then bend the elbow again and look the opposite way. Do about 30 of these twice daily. The other observations we would want to look at would be your shoulder position as you may be compensating. It could also be that you are compressing and loading the elbow and the joint is crumbling a bit. Ultimately it goes away which is good but it may require an assessment if it's getting worse or not clearing up. Let me know how you get on.Regards MattHi again, just noticed that you said both elbows can be a problem. If this is the case the above comments are still relevant but you may also be dropping/depressing your shoulders when locking out and causing a more general nerve stretch. Try lots of shoulder shrugs and look at your shoulder positions when climbing ie don't let them drop too much. regardsregardsmatt
Hi, for about a year I've been having problems with my elbows, neck and back. Initially I stopped climbing I stopped climbing for about 3 months but the problems didn't go, if anything they got worse. i tried doing the tendonitis weight exercises but thu didnt seem to help (after a few months of being very strict). More recently through lots of stretching, shoulder shrugs and hot baths after climbing the symptoms have calmed down (ie my elbows rarely hurt) but I can't quite get rid of the fore arm tension and neck pain. My forearms seem tense in the morning but I stretch them a lot throughout the day. It seems that too much climbing only makes my neck stuff and forearms a little stiff an the only thing that gets the inside of my elbows hurting is day to day activities (drying hair and using my phone etc). Wondering if there is any specific back workouts I could do to finally get rid of my problems. Hope all that rambling made sense and thanks in advance for any repliesDave
Quote from: mark20 on August 23, 2013, 12:59:03 pmI sometimes get a dull ache on the inside of my elbows, near where the bicep joins the elbow. It's been happening for a couple of years now, usually my right arm, and after a few sessions of powerful bouldering- anything really slappy or big locks between holds on steep ground. Usually clears up again in a couple of days with rest / pressups, etc. But it's becoming a bit annoying and I can't seem to completely get rid of it so any advice would be great, thanksHi, you could be compressing a nerve (median) when you are fully bending your elbow with a biceps contraction ie in locking out. Do you get any pins and needles or numbness? There are some nerve movements/mobilisations that may help, these involve taking your arm out to the side, straightening your elbow with your fingers pointing downwards (starting position is like carrying a tray) and look towards your hand. Then bend the elbow again and look the opposite way. Do about 30 of these twice daily. The other observations we would want to look at would be your shoulder position as you may be compensating. It could also be that you are compressing and loading the elbow and the joint is crumbling a bit. Ultimately it goes away which is good but it may require an assessment if it's getting worse or not clearing up. Let me know how you get on.Regards Matt
I sometimes get a dull ache on the inside of my elbows, near where the bicep joins the elbow. It's been happening for a couple of years now, usually my right arm, and after a few sessions of powerful bouldering- anything really slappy or big locks between holds on steep ground. Usually clears up again in a couple of days with rest / pressups, etc. But it's becoming a bit annoying and I can't seem to completely get rid of it so any advice would be great, thanks
Hi, Since August the base of my middle left finger has been hurting after repetitive crimping. If i have 2 days off it stops hurting and i can climb on my limit, I had it checked out and was told it is most likely inflammation of the muscle and not tendon related. It hurts more to touch then to actually use. I have been icing and massaging it but still climbing quite hard. Just wondering if you have any idea what could have caused it/be causing it and the best way for it to recover?Thanks a lot,George
Hello. On and off for a few months I've had a problem with the knuckle of my left middle finger. Particularly after climbing fingery things, if I leave my finger bent for any period of time (i.e. when asleep) it locks a bit and won't straighten without a small click which seems to come from the upper lateral (palms down) part of the knuckle. There's no pain on climbing, and only slight pain if I really squeeze the knuckle on the same place. It also feels generally stiff but I can't tell if that's real or a psychological overlay. Obviously this is causing no real problems as yet, but it's a bit worrying.
About 4 weeks ago I hurt my finger on a route. I didn't realise until afterwards. For the next few weeks is was really stiff and I couldn't straighten it. Then when it felt better I climbed again. It felt fine, no pain or discomfort but the next day it was stiff again. This has happened a few times now and I'm starting to despair. It's the 2nd joint on my ring finger. Feel like it may need a longer lay off but I know in a few days it will feel fine again.
Hi thereI saw Matt about this at Cliffhanger but the problem is back with either an additional or possibly a separate issue. My left arm has a small, knotty hard lump in the wrist and a larger, softer fluid-like lump further up the arm, as per the picture. These are the symptoms I showed Matt previously and the advice to back off worked, but then trying to step it up again has produced the same result. The big fluid lump reduced but the knotty lump has never gone away.The new symptoms are that in the left hand my ring and middle fingers are stiff for a few days after climbing and I have discomfort, bordering on pain, when I squeeze a fist. The ring finger is slightly worse and if I pinch it at the base it hurts slightly more than when making a fist. CheersIan
I have a problem with my neck and I'd be interested in your opinion.I think the problem first appeared while using a trampoline, back in may, and has re-occured a few times when doing similar bouncing movements. I describe it as tweaking my neck.I experience a pain that i would describe as feeling like a trapped nerve in the back of my neck on my left side, just to the left of my spine, maybe about an inch from the top of my neck. Prodding here hurts but doing so does seem to help.Stretching by pulling my head down into my right arm pit also seems to help. When doing this i get a referred pain in my rotator cuff.It tends to clear-up after a little a week or so. And climbing seems to help if anything.ThanksJames
Hiya, hope i'm posting this properly (first time on here) this message is for the physio clinic Q and A forum:injured inner forearm whilst bouldering last thursdayHappened whilst pulling on three finger pocket.. So open handed I think, move felt fine , was repeating it as working on a problem, heard a pop and sharp pain span inner forearm. No pain or swelling or bruising apart from when I try hanging open handed or push against slight resistance with ring finger.. That's when I felt pain about 3/4 of the way down inner forearm and bit in finger. It's fine doing pull ups on jugs or larger flat holds.was a tiny bit sore when I pressed in same place I feel pain in forearmwas hurting if i pulled or pressed against any resistance with my ring finger but only hurts now when try pulling gently with my ring finger open handed... which i'm doing very gently to see if it's still an issue (on the door frame)no pain when i try doing any hanging or pulling/pressing with another finger to assistwas going to tyake it very easy for afew days, haven't climbed for three days.. intending on doing a bit tonighti'm thinking it's muscular rather than tendon?any advice greatly appreciated.thanks
Just a random, quick, mildly technical question which may not even be relevant here, but... Is there a difference between a pilon fracture and a 'third distal tibial fracture with articular involvement'? (I know, but there's a perfectly reasonable motive for the question)
Hi NAI The picture shows the right hand? Anyway I suspect you have either torn the insertion in on of the tendons that inserts into the wrist (FCR) and this would produce swelling in the muscle belly ('soft swelling in forearm) and local wrist problem. If the initial injury was high load injury you might have damaged the ligaments in the radial side of the wrist and the muscles in the forearm are trying to compensate for the loss of control. Either way work out which moves provoke the pain/swelling and avoid them for a couple of weeks. Possibly tape the wrist to reduce stress and don't over stretch the wrist. Try forearm strengthening exercises with weights but if you continue to have symptoms you need a professional opinion. Do you get symptoms with thumb movements/loading?Cheers Steve
Quote from: HPclinic on November 23, 2013, 11:31:10 amHi NAI The picture shows the right hand? Anyway I suspect you have either torn the insertion in on of the tendons that inserts into the wrist (FCR) and this would produce swelling in the muscle belly ('soft swelling in forearm) and local wrist problem. If the initial injury was high load injury you might have damaged the ligaments in the radial side of the wrist and the muscles in the forearm are trying to compensate for the loss of control. Either way work out which moves provoke the pain/swelling and avoid them for a couple of weeks. Possibly tape the wrist to reduce stress and don't over stretch the wrist. Try forearm strengthening exercises with weights but if you continue to have symptoms you need a professional opinion. Do you get symptoms with thumb movements/loading?Cheers Steve Hi SteveThanks for replying. It's actually my left arm if that makes any difference? I think I need to come and see you for a definitive diagnosis, I've had this for a while now and would like to get it sorted.Ian
Have a question re: this: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=570080&new=7580146#x7580146Basically it's a type of finger injury that seems quite common among climbers.Pain in finger joints which hurts when the joint is pressed or knocked but doesn't hurt or affect ability to pull on holds. Doesn't show up in ultrasound on my case; other people have remarked doesn't show up on Xrays.On seeing a hand therapist she suggested it might be arthritis but it seems so common among climbers that I'm not sure. Had a previous similar injury which resolved in 18-months/2 years. Joint remains 'thicker' than other unaffected joints, but no difference in ROM or pain etc.Any thoughts as to what this mystery condition might be?
Quote from: Rocksteady on November 22, 2013, 02:33:55 pmRocksteady Excellent question and one which needs a wider view of pain and how we can get fooled by local tenderness. Basically you can use the hand and climbing does not cause a problem (so no OA, tears or ruptures in my opinion). After an injury there is a sensitisation process (peripherally and centrally-spinal cord and brain) which can cause us to experience pain (on touch or with movement). The tissues are normal on imaging (US, MRI and X-ray) and loads well with activity. We can experience pain without tissue damage (consider people who have continuing foot pain following an amputation) and what you might be experiencing is pain over the joint as a result of the previous injury and subsequent sensitisation process. So what should you do? 1. Keep climbing and progressively load the hand/arm/body with a variety of movements.2. Don't keep pressing the finger to see how its going (this can only cause us to focus on the pain). This sensitisation process is normal and is often worse if we worry about the injury. (For a more detailed overview of pain and how our brain get fooled sometimes watch Prof Moseley-go to HallamshirePhysiotherapy.com site and click 'Chronic pain' and then select the second video). The brain produces pain as a perceived threat and it is always making decision about what we will experience. (that why when you are dangling 50m over a steep cliff and the hold is really poor and you could fall-you don't have pain in the old knee injury!) Tell me how you got on. Does that help explain the painful hand? Best wishes Steve
