I definitely transfer a lot of weight through the feet. As soon as the weight goes more on my arms I feel the foot placements become useless and basically feel as though my legs/feet are dropping out from the overhang.
What part of the shoulders would need strengthening in relation to steep ground?Any advice on what I could do at home to help improve this style overall using the fingerboard/pull-up bar?
I used to have this exact same problem you describe 'til I started deadlifting- it seems to make your lower back stronger really quickly which lets you get that push through your feet to create the tension. I imagine you're aware that there's an epic thread on deadlifting on here.
Physically, I saw your "core" program and it is far from anything that would help with steep climbing. the intensity and the specificty is simply not there.
It's worth pointing out that a lot of good climbers also struggle with the Cave on their first visit as it's so beta intensive. That punter Megos only climbed 8a . I think you just need to bite the bullet and do more steep bouldering despite how demoralising it may feel to begin with.
I'm good with my feet and usually use technique to get around not being strong. Where my mates will just lock something out or throw for the hold I'm usually using the intermediate shit crimp with some gnarly heel beta...
One thing worth noting: 'technique' is not something which only applies to vert, nor is using the gnarly heel static beta always 'better' technique than 'just throwing' for a hold. Chances are your technique for vert stuff is pretty good, but if you're not used to climbing steep stuff then your technique for it is probably pretty poor. The timings, the movements, the body positions are all different. Good with your feet on vert doesn't mean you'll be good with your feet when it comes to pulling into holds on a roof, toe hooks etc. Watching Steve Mac in Santa Linya compared to how Bolger, Sharma etc climb it there it seemed to me that whilst he no doubt has immaculate technique for vert/slabby gnarl or malham trickery, the overtly 'less technical' flicking employed by those more at home on 50 degree ground was actually the better technique in that arena. If you watch videos of Andrada's spinny, campusy style - initially it often looks like 'poor' technique, but actually there's often a lot of tricky momentum going on behind the scenes.I have no advice to give on exercises to do at home, other than the usual shit for getting stronger fingers, arms and core. The real advice is: build a steep board, go bouldering on steep stuff more, or move nearer to a wall...
I expected too much of my already gained experiance on non-steep rock would transfer to something i'm not used to. Massive head room for improvement on it though I guess!
My 2 cents. Core doesn't involve just the lower back and legs, it involves the whole body. It means being able to be strong from the fingers on the hold, to the toes on the footholds, so a strong upper torso, and strong shoulders are a must have. Also, on overhangs the push from the feet in my opinion must be more progressive, otherwise with a sudden, quick push you'll get very high but you can cut loose. This is something I trained by avoiding the classic feet-follow-hands kind of gym setting, and by setting my own problems, using poor feet and choosing holds on which a cut loose meant a fall.
The good news is that steep stuff is less technical - usually there is a lot less possible moves than in vertical or slab so its quick to learn and once you get the fitness part and the basic movements wired you'll be crushing.
Watching the wads up at Rubicon et al has shown me that strength and good, accurate dynamic movement can work wonders.
I know you said you cannot afford the indoor walls at the moment, but this:http://www.onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/old-school-drills-foot-off-bouldering.html
Pull up bar - Wide grip and close grip pull ups and pull ups with legs raised (killer on my lower back!)Holding a static position on a 20mm edge with feet on a chair as far as possible behind the fingerboard - Had to fight the urge to sag, felt like an extreme plank!Holding one arm lock offs with feet on a chair stretched out behind the board[/b][/sub]
I had similar experiences to you when I went to the Bowderstone (and the Cave on a handful of trips). I was a pitifully weak lover of tiny crimps and came badly unstuck when I tried to apply my natural climbing style, much admired by the three-toed sloth. What little success I ever managed was only after months of going to steep indoor bouldering walls and forcing myself to throw between holds more. By all means get all the heelhook beta going, but once your feet are in right, hurl for the next hold and don't try to static it out - move quick before you sag.
The first excercise in the video is part of what I do for core. Trying go get a hold as far as possible, without cutting loose. As you see, you have to be precise and progressive. I hope this helps.
http://www.onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/old-school-drills-foot-off-bouldering.htmlMight be useful.
Deadhangs on Slopers, Open handed Front 3, Back 3, Middle 2 and Half Crimp 4 fingers.Pull-ups on a 30mm edge half crimpedPull up bar - Wide grip and close grip pull ups and pull ups with legs raised (killer on my lower back!)Holding a static position on a 20mm edge with feet on a chair as far as possible behind the fingerboard - Had to fight the urge to sag, felt like an extreme plank!Holding one arm lock offs with feet on a chair stretched out behind the board
I can't help but feel these exercises miss the point a little. It seems to me the general advice in this thread has been that you need to learn to move dynamically (i agree with this, it's one of my weaknesses too), all these exercises are focused on static strength. I'm almost certain that if you got to the stage where you could do a one arm front lever you'd still find the cave desperate without improving your dynamism.The easiest way to improve this would be Dave Macs feet-off bouldering and bouldering on steep stuff but you have said you don't have access to these things. So how can you achieve dynamism with a pull-up bar and a finger-board?Difficult! My suggestion would be along the lines off. - Fast pull-ups - really try and accelerate upwards - progress to clapping at the apex of the pullup. - Pull-ups with ceiling tap. Do a pull-up then try touch the ceiling above the bar with one hand - key is that ou have to let go of bar with one hand for brief period. - Campus between your fingerboard and campus rung. good for practising timing. Ideally you would like a bigger rung and a bigger distance to campus - stick to big holds this is about perfecting movement not getting strong. - Go to kids playground and campus around on monkey bars. Or use a tree? - Practise jumping to you bar/fingerboard. - with feet on chair - bounce both hands together between different holds on fingerboard/campus rung - anything to move dynamically... letting go of one thing and quickly grabbing another.Really I would stress that there is no good substitute for climbing steep stuff as training for steep stuff.
But I was also looking to do at least something (rather than nothing at all) at home that would help even the slightest bit so I just came up with a few exercises and was looking for feedback on them.
Quote from: MJC on June 05, 2013, 07:05:15 pmhttp://www.onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/old-school-drills-foot-off-bouldering.htmlMight be useful.Cheers, SEDur posted this on the first page of this thread. Good knowlege by MacLeod.Started reading 9 out of 10 Climbers again the other day. Good section in there about pulling with the feet on steep stuff.
Which ocean is that?