I don't mind people answering and guessing the answer to mandatory questions they don't know the answer to.
Far better an approximate answer to the right question, which is often vague, than the exact answer to the wrong question, which can always be made precise.
For comparison it probably makes sense to pool the data into even fewer cohorts
Edge depths in tricky. For the half crimp the rounded part of the edge should not be measured if the fingers are not in contact with the surface there, but most people hold either pinky or index a bit more open than the other fingers when using the half crimp grip.
Quote from: jwi on March 01, 2013, 08:11:06 amEdge depths in tricky. For the half crimp the rounded part of the edge should not be measured if the fingers are not in contact with the surface there, but most people hold either pinky or index a bit more open than the other fingers when using the half crimp grip.Perhaps the Beastmaker holds should be adopted as the climbing training equivalent of the Greenwich Meridian.
Quote from: shark on March 01, 2013, 09:54:09 amQuote from: jwi on March 01, 2013, 08:11:06 amEdge depths in tricky. For the half crimp the rounded part of the edge should not be measured if the fingers are not in contact with the surface there, but most people hold either pinky or index a bit more open than the other fingers when using the half crimp grip.Perhaps the Beastmaker holds should be adopted as the climbing training equivalent of the Greenwich Meridian.I don't have access to a Beastmaker, and I think that is true for many. (I have contacts in far flung places that I hope are willing to distribute the test). But if there is lots of data to be had I am all ears.For those who do not have access to a 16 mm edge to do the testing on I added the option of the smallest metoliuos rung (which I don't have access to right now either, but from memory it should be slightly harder to hang than a 16 mm flatty - but not by much).Do you have a suggestion for a BM-grip that is about equivalent to a 16 mm flatty? I can add them for people that don't have access to either. Are there several kinds of BM? Which is the most popular?
Quote from: jwi on March 01, 2013, 10:04:50 amQuote from: shark on March 01, 2013, 09:54:09 amQuote from: jwi on March 01, 2013, 08:11:06 amEdge depths in tricky. For the half crimp the rounded part of the edge should not be measured if the fingers are not in contact with the surface there, but most people hold either pinky or index a bit more open than the other fingers when using the half crimp grip.Perhaps the Beastmaker holds should be adopted as the climbing training equivalent of the Greenwich Meridian.I don't have access to a Beastmaker, and I think that is true for many. (I have contacts in far flung places that I hope are willing to distribute the test). But if there is lots of data to be had I am all ears.For those who do not have access to a 16 mm edge to do the testing on I added the option of the smallest metoliuos rung (which I don't have access to right now either, but from memory it should be slightly harder to hang than a 16 mm flatty - but not by much).Do you have a suggestion for a BM-grip that is about equivalent to a 16 mm flatty? I can add them for people that don't have access to either. Are there several kinds of BM? Which is the most popular?Maybe not such a good idea as getting equivalents to the beastmaker is tricky because not only are they rounded at the lip but also rounded at the back so your fingers stick in further.The number 5 slot is about 25mm and the number 10 edge is around 6/7mm. The middle 14 slot is around 16mm but obviously you can't hang it two handed and similarly the pockets don't accommodate all your fingers.http://ukbouldering.com/media/images/bm.jpgFor benchmarking, though not necessarily training, Eva's board is a better internationally available option.Well constructed survey BTW
Do you mind me asking what the point in collecting this data is? What will you gain from having it? My thought would be that people would look at it to say "oh, to climb 8c I need to be able to hang this edge with x kgs on" and focus on that when we all know that's not quite how getting better at climbing works.
Quote from: shark on March 01, 2013, 10:29:29 amMaybe not such a good idea as getting equivalents to the beastmaker is tricky because not only are they rounded at the lip but also rounded at the back so your fingers stick in further.The number 5 slot is about 25mm and the number 10 edge is around 6/7mm. The middle 14 slot is around 16mm but obviously you can't hang it two handed and similarly the pockets don't accommodate all your fingers.http://ukbouldering.com/media/images/bm.jpgFor benchmarking, though not necessarily training, Eva's board is a better internationally available option.Well constructed survey BTW ? I make the number 10 edge about 14/16mm rather than 6/7. Similarly, the number 5 is > 25mm.
Maybe not such a good idea as getting equivalents to the beastmaker is tricky because not only are they rounded at the lip but also rounded at the back so your fingers stick in further.The number 5 slot is about 25mm and the number 10 edge is around 6/7mm. The middle 14 slot is around 16mm but obviously you can't hang it two handed and similarly the pockets don't accommodate all your fingers.http://ukbouldering.com/media/images/bm.jpgFor benchmarking, though not necessarily training, Eva's board is a better internationally available option.Well constructed survey BTW
One of the things I am most curious about is the distribution of training hours put into bouldering and roped climbing, and how this correlates with stated goals (my hypothesis is that they are not correlated at all, at least not for old hands).
Thats not how hypothesis testing and probabilities should be interpreted. (Scatter plots would show the relationship better, histograms like that don't show if the one of the two people who can hang 5.5mm edges is the person who can RP Sport 8c)
Scatterplots make no sense yet, too few respondents.
Quote from: jwi on March 04, 2013, 09:38:46 amScatterplots make no sense yet, too few respondents.Then there seems little point in calculating/reporting (non-parametric) correlation at this point either.
Quantiles:______________________________________________________________ _Test___________________________________0%____25%____50%____75%___100%__ Number of pull-ups 8 13 18 23 28 Pull-up strength/weight ratio 0.035 0.169 0.312 0.368 0.926 16 mm open crimp, strength/weight ratio0.036 0.276 0.512 0.584 0.913 Minimum edge open crimp 5.5 6.75 8 9.875 14 Intermittent endurance 16 mm open crimp4 4 5 6 9 Static endurance 16 mm open crimp 12.5 25 30 45 60 _Abs_stamina____________________________2.5___13_____20_____30____50____
__________________________________________________________________ | Trad OS (safe)||Sport OS grade|| Trad X| |Trad R | |Trad PG/R | |_______________|25%____75%___|_25%__75%_|_25%___75%_|25%___75%__|_ | 5c |5c 6a+/b | 4a+ 5a |4c+ 5b | 5b 5b+ | | 6a |6a 6b+/c | 4b+ 5b |5a+ 5c | 5c 5c+ | | 6b |6b 6c+/7a | 4c+ 5c |5b+ 6a | 6a 6a+ | | 6c |6c 7a+/b | 5a+ 6a |5c+ 6b | 6b 6b+ | | 7a |7a 7b+/c | 5b+ 6b |6a+ 6c | 6c 6c+ | | 7b |7b 7c+/8a | 5c+ 6c |6b+ 7a | 7a 7a+ | | 7c |7c 8a+/b | 6a+ 7a |6c+ 7b | 7b 7b+ | |_______8a_______|8a___8b+/c__|_6b+___7b__|7a+___7c__|_7c___7c+__|_
_______________________________________________________________________ | Sport RP|| Fast RP || Circuits| L|apping routes|| Treshold| |Continuous | |__________|25%__75%_|_25%___75%_|25%_____75%___|25%___75%_|_25%___75%_|_ | 7a |6c 6c | 6a 6c |6a 6b |5c 6a |5b 5c | | 7b |7a 7a | 6b 7a | 6b 6c |6a 6b | 5c 6a | | 7c |7b 7b | 6c 7b | 6c 7a |6b 6c | 6a 6b | | 8a |7c 7c | 7a 7c |7a 7b |6c 7a |6b 6c | | 8b |8a 8a | 7b 8a | 7b 7c |7a 7b | 6c 7a | |____8c____|8b____8b__|_7c___8b__|_7c______8a____|7b____7c__|_7a___7b__|_
________________________________________________________ | Boulder RP||Boulder quick send||Stamina laps|| Max level | |____________|25%______75%_____|25%____75%__|25%___75%_|_ | 6b |6a 6b |5b 5c | 6b 6b | | 6c |6b 6c |5c 6a | 6c 6c | | 7a |6c 7a |6a 6b | 7a 7a | | 7b |7a 7b |6b 6c | 7b 7b | | 7c |7b 7c |6c 7a | 7c 7c | | 8a |7c 8a |7a 7b | 8a 8a | |_____8b_____|8a________8b______|7b____7c___|_8b____8b__|
The difference between the risky and safe trad o/s grades was on average -2.1 full french grades.