[Monolith]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever remember Si O'Conman having any accomplices/witnesses?
 
John however has been seen on the Pill Box problem (I'm right in thinking?), has been photographed in position on VNB (in itself surely a Font 9a position (positions, not problems. Know the feeling)). I'm sure Ray Wood has seen him in other climbing scenarios as have others come forward saying that they've seen him performing impressively (perhaps not complete ascents).

I for one am absolutely not suspicious of John and believe his character stacks up entirely. After all, could he not as easily have lied about completing the Brandenburg Gate project?

[slackline]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever remember Si O'Conman having any accomplices/witnesses?

Didn't he credit his dog a fair bit?

[Doylo]

It's a sad day when Gaskins is getting compared to Si o Connor

[benpritch]

I'd just like to say I saw John Gaskins trying Brandenburg Gate and he didn't look a million miles off doing it. He was definitely stringing moves together. He went there repeatedly to try it and didn't claim it. I'd say that is a big plus point in regard to questions regarding his integrity.

[Lund]

It may be a sad day doylo, but fundamentally, from a position of ignorance about the man and the legend, as a member of the jury at the moment I'm seeing some parallels.

It seems to me to be an echo of the simpson thread.  I remember reading that and there's loads of people saying "I'm sure that someone must have seen something", "But he was really strong, I saw him on the campus board, although never climbing anything", and "an unedited video isn't the same as an edited video".

[I've not bothered to re-read it.]

Now... we seem to be saying
1. Surely someone has seen him climb something very hard
2. We've seen him climbing on easier things / other stuff, and he looks well cool
2. Positions aren't the same as problems

See the similarity?

Of course, if we knew who belayed him on violent new breed, and they came forward, and said yeah, blah blah whatever then great.  Of course, should that be his wife... or should he get angry and say "FUCK YOU ALL FOR ASKING" then...

I dunno.  From not knowing or caring about the legend, it seems highly fucking suspicious to my mind.

Of course, I have in the past been called a suspicious dick.

[Monolith]

I'd just like to say I saw John Gaskins trying Brandenburg Gate and he didn't look a million miles off doing it. He was definitely stringing moves together. He went there repeatedly to try it and didn't claim it. I'd say that is a big plus point in regard to questions regarding his integrity.

Case in point.

Now how many people have eeked out of the woodwork for some other characters of dubious nature?
We're talking about a man who never courted the media limelight and was seemingly always approached by those curious (see Mr Panton's OTE article for example). Sorry to bring Dolph into this but here's another talent that has always climbed on his own doorstep and the only reason some of his developments have come to light was that he finally learnt to turn his computer on and tripped up into a video camera (largely for personal posterity I'm sure). His wife probably signed him up here. Bless him.

Believe it or not, such characters exist who grow up in the hinterland and do it for themselves. I can't imagine Boreal have installed a Cristal tap in John's house and I don't think Ben Moon could ever meet Mike's Coca Cola supply and demand.

[Moo]

I seem to recall reading that gaskins had to resort to self belaying on violent new breed due to being unable to find a belayer.

[T_B]

...surely in life if you are uniformed about things you say nothing? It’s obvious this is not the case with the majority of the posts on here.

Think what you want about me, I don’t care, anyone that knows me will know what im like, and to the rest it will just be assumptions.

I am not owed a living by anyone, and have no reason to tip toe around people, I don’t want a living from climbing so have no need to build either a good reputation with anyone I don’t want to.



Who wrote that then?

In this day and age, if you're a professional climber then your sponsors should require that you video your 'newsworthy' ascents. Then there will no longer be anywhere for the cheats (and pathological liars) to hide.

[Johnny Brown]

I'd just like to say I saw John Gaskins trying Brandenburg Gate and he didn't look a million miles off doing it. He was definitely stringing moves together. He went there repeatedly to try it and didn't claim it. I'd say that is a big plus point in regard to questions regarding his integrity.

Just to reiterate, I wasn't suggesting Gaskins should be doubted, not for a moment. I was just suggesting that as time passes, the uninitiated may struggle to see clear differences as to why his records are accepted and Si 'O's is not. In the future, I think folk should do their best to notice such developing situations and remedy them - ie it should not be taboo to ask for proof.

PS my last post was mainly in reply to the one Chris deleted.

[shark]

Just to reiterate, I wasn't suggesting Gaskins should be doubted, not for a moment. I was just suggesting that as time passes, the uninitiated may struggle to see clear differences as to why his records are accepted and Si 'O's is not. In the future, I think folk should do their best to notice such developing situations and remedy them - ie it should not be taboo to ask for proof.

To back up what Johnny Brown is saying  but making it less loaded by going further back, a friend of mine (aka geordie) is absolutely convinced that Haskett-Smith lied about climbing Napes Needle and made a case for it on UKC here.

There may have been good reason for his peers not to doubt Haskett-Smith at the time based on integrity/witnessed performance as Gaskins has and O'Connor hasn't . OTOH it may be that they did doubt in private. We'll never know now. So looking back without any context some aspects of Haskett-Smiths claim look sketchy. 

[Three Nine]

I remember Simpson telling me in 2009 that he doubted all Gaskins hard stuff, but I doubt that means very much.

For what its worth (and i'm sure thats not much) i've doubted Gaskins for ages. I remember Ken Palmer saying that he didn't think Gaskins had done Fishermans Tale at Anstey's.

I don't really care all that much, but i feel the need to slag Gaskins off just cost so many cunts on here (like Doyle) wanna get right up inside Gaskins' rectum. 

[Three Nine]

Punter away, i'm on for the magic -50.

[c.j.d.]

I had a conversation with Pete this morning to clear up any misinterpretation.

Chris was not given a message to pass on, and has since been put on the plonker list.  Also - the bit about 'not really, but could I get Pete's number' was omitted.  I'd like to think Pete has understood why I was so angry yesterday.

Over and out

CJD

[petejh]

Punter away, i'm on for the magic -50.

I heard when you reach negative 50 it's like when a pawn reaches the far-side of the chess board and gets turned into a Queen.

[Johnny Brown]

a friend of mine (aka geordie) is absolutely convinced that Haskett-Smith lied about climbing Napes Needle and made a case for it on UKC here.

That thread's hilarious, especially liked this:

* During his time at Oxford he broke the college long jump record - in practice ie. no-one saw him do it - they had to take his word!

Proof indeed that little has changed...

[Doylo]

There was no not really flops, I just checked. If someone asks me to pass on a message I'm gonna do it. You plonka!  Three Nine your old king just rang me.He said to tell you you're adopted. Yes if you look at the cold hard facts then gaskins is no better than the O Connors but being a lone wolf wasn t looked on as dodgy back then. the difference is Gaskins has been seen being pretty mutant on various occasions, he's a devout Christian and isnt barking mad like most the others. it is clear that we have now entered an era where if you're sponsored or you're putting up significant FAs then you need to establish some credibility. This doesn't mean everything needs to be filmed. Far from it, credible witnesses would do the job. It's not hard to make yourself credible so from now on there should be no excuse.

[Three Nine]

Are you my real dad? I knew it!

[north_country_boy]

....he's a devout Christian and isnt barking mad like most the others.

There seems to be a contradiction in here somewhere.

[slackline]

 

[Doylo]

Are you my real dad? I knew it!

Sparky, i am your father

[Lund]

he's a devout Christian

So was Jimmy Savile.

[carlisle slapper]

Just to reiterate again! and basically say what JB and Doylo recently has. We should let bygones be bygones with what has been written up. I can see why chris is annoyed at having his back catalogue called out with no notice as things were different back then, its class that he's refilming some of the latest stuff like last stand and i think its helping the scene massively, i think its well tight if he were to have to prove things from years ago though as its just not fair and should've been sorted at the time if there was an issue. Same with gaskins, its all been written up and i think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

If from now on though if a person decides to put up the only 8C+s in the country if they could provide a bit of concrete evidence of them  climbing at that level without feeling put out that'd be useful for the sport. Otherwise we should just do a round robin and pick random bits of blankish rock out of our hats for our hardest problems to be (no need for a fa-ist, as you dont need to prove anything and its better if the whole community is involved in the lying i reckon).

 A capable climber might have to repeat at least one of John's 8C's at some point including Shadowplay (8B+ original grade) (which has to have lost the big foothold off it for john not to be levitating, as even he couldnt pull on if i remember correctly from Ray). The easiest 8C would be walk away sit as its barely 7C into the stand but the match is really hard and obviously the stand is a really hard move (7C into a one move 8A+) Traci sit is a 7C+ move into a hard 8A move into a single move 8A (harder for me with johns beta)
Traci sit 8A+ walk away sit 8C make sense to anyone?

Shadowplay is probably multiple single move 8Bs (i cant pull on in a lot of places) the whole way and therefore a first for world bouldering. ATHOIA is lots of single move 7C+/8As with a one move 8B in the middle and Il parata looks like it might even be a single move 8B+ as its so short.

Where as on the repeated problems side Isla de encanta is roughly a one move 7C+ with a 7B+ into it and that gets 8B quite rightly as climbing into single move 7C+s is hard going. Shallow groove is at least as hard as Isla i'd argue but a different style (hence why Ryan is the only one to have done it) I've not tried Kaizen so cant comment.

The best way to see where i'm coming from is to go out and try some of these problems as there's no better way to get a sense of just how hard they are in relation to everything else.

Like i say i'd love to believe what Johns done for the sport and i've always given him the benefit of the doubt in the past and its a shame to use him as an example but he's by far the easiest enigma to find in the UK. Surely people would prefer to know for sure if it ever happened again? its 2013 now and leaving a camera on or having a few mates spot/watch really isnt alot to ask if you're going to report what you do and its crazily hard. This only applies to a few people, but i guess its important to many more that its done right as i cant see the logic of bouldering even being a credible sport if the problem of people potentially lying about developing the country's hardest climbs is so easily solvable now but not enforced by anyone. News reporters and guidebook writers have the unenviable task put on them as aside from the climber they are the people responsible for the news becoming widely known and understood as truth.

[Lund]

Just to reiterate again! and basically say what JB and Doylo recently has. We should let bygones be bygones with what has been written up. I can see why chris is annoyed at having his back catalogue called out with no notice as things were different back then, its class that he's refilming some of the latest stuff like last stand and i think its helping the scene massively, i think its well tight if he were to have to prove things from years ago though as its just not fair and should've been sorted at the time if there was an issue. Same with gaskins, its all been written up and i think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Dan, I don't agree, soz.  This attitude would have left lance armstrong the record holder, and a legend, rather than shown up to be the cheat he was for example.

You seem remarkably cool with it.  If I were you, I think I'd be a bit more pissed off.  All that hard work, and some other chap who doesn't spend half as much time dangling off small bits of wood is known as the guy who's the best boulderer ever in the UK.

Is that fair?

Hindsight is a beautiful thing.  I think we should take advantage of its clarity.

[Sasquatch]

it is clear that we have now entered an era where if you're sponsored or you're putting up significant FAs then you need to establish some credibility. This doesn't mean everything needs to be filmed. Far from it, credible witnesses would do the job. It's not hard to make yourself credible so from now on there should be no excuse.

I don't think this is anything new.  There's always been a need for credibility.  Look back through climbing's history, from the mountains to the boulders, and you see the same thing:

John Smith claims something new and amazing,
Joe Dirt doubts it,
Either John Smith goes on to do more amazing things, some of which are witnessed lending credibility to his unwitnessed claims,
Or John Smith goes on to claim more amazing things with nary a witness, thus leading more people into Joe Dirt's Camp. 

In the end everyone knows that John Smith was either lying or he wasn't.  Either way, they've become part of climbing's folklore. 

* The characters mentioned above are all fictional and were made up by the author.

[dave]

It's a sad day when Gaskins is getting compared to Si o Connor

+1

Lets not gaskins never claimed E8s hanging above the sea with an 6ft 8a crux dyno off razor blades to a credit card edge in a roof, 30ft above a rotting RP and a tied off guillemot's egg. Or posted blatantly photoshopped photos of himself holding positions on alleged 8d+ roofs.