[Paul B]

Firstly, apologies for being a little cheeky with this 'kinda' double post. I thought people might give this thread a look instead of the overly-exploited one I've used before.

Although things haven't gone to plan (I didn't get my research position and my better half didn't manage to get chartered) we've decided that we'd like to try and fit in a West Coast trip next year (if not now, when?). As this entails quitting one 'good' job (no handy sabbaticals this time), and another job we need to make it worth it and thus I'm imagining we'll use the full 6 months we can extract from an extended Visa.

The main question I have surrounds when would be 'best' to leave to ensure we can visit all of the major areas in a sensible order without days and days of driving back and forth. We can't leave before Mar 18th and I'd imagine the other half would prefer it to be a week (at least) after this date as she'll have been pretty busy leading up to it.

On the other thread people have suggested:

]
Fly to Vegas.
mid-March - mid April: Indian Creek, Joshua Tree, Red Rocks.
early May: Tahoe (optional, go straight to Yosemite if the weather is particularly good or spend more time in Utah if it is particularly cold)
mid May: Yosemite
early - mid. June: Crush!

July/ August: Fly to Seattle, buy yankee van, cross border to Squamish, head to Bugaboos and possibly Lotus Flower
Sept: head south via Smith Rocks to Yosemite, ideally via Tuolomne and the Needles (and The Hulk)
Oct: Yosemite. When the snow comes, head south to Red Rocks via Bishop or J-Tree (and beyond my 1st hand Knowledge.
November: Moab, Zion, desert towers etc? Sell van in Vegas, fly home for Xmas

Alternatively you could do this in reverse March - August.

I'd say the main attraction to the US are the bigger routes and the trad stuff. Bishop and the bouldering in Yosemite look great (and I'm sure they'll be a welcome break for the more stressful options) but last time we did a trip the pad ended up being used for about 1 week out of 6 months (a little more often for sitting on).

I guess what concerns me mostly is that as I don't know these venues well, nor have I done anything truly 'big' I'm not sure what a logical order would be so that I (/we) have a good chance of getting things done. I imagine I'll get an absolute spanking from the cracks to start and it might be a shame to arrive in the valley before we've had chance to fix this.

Also, my rack is likely woefully under-cammed for the big stuff. Can anyone point me at a good (American forum?) resource so I can work out what the hell it is we'd need to buy. Working in a gear shop currently it seems pragmatic to buy as much as I can before leaving.

I'm also struggling to find many vans in my price range, are camper vans referred to as something else over there?

Sorry for the essay.

(Vegas needs to feature too although I'm not sure the family are going to like this plan one bit  )

[SA Chris]

Nice one, get on it!

For starters, most leisure vehicles are referred to as RVs, with the bigger ones being motorhomes. However if you are fine with roughing it a bit you can live quite comfortably out of a minivan of some sort, which are cheap and cheerful and pretty spacious. I bought a Ford Aerostar and lived out of that pretty well for about 6 weeks. The two back rows of seats folded down to a fairly comfy bed. To get insurance you will need an address you can use, you don't necessarily have to prove you live there.

I personally think you should consider a "best of" and spend longer there, rather than zooming about too much.

I had 10 Days in Joshua Tree and found it good for doing mileage and getting my trad head back on (after no climbing for 6 months) - there is the full range from piss easy to nails, mostly single pitch, with a bit of 2 and the occasional 3, so great for mileage at the start of the trip. You could then head across to Moab and Indian Creek etc and either get on the cracks or do some desert towers, and then back across to Red Rocks once Moab and around are getting warm, as at least there are cooler options in the canyons. You could detour to Joe's Valley on the way. From there you could get up to Bishop with the option of stuff in then eastern sierras or Needles depending on what snows do over the winter.

From there you can pause at Tahoe for a bit if needed, and then hit Yosemit for the summer.

I personally wouldn't get too heated up about doing too much travelling; best play it by ear as the weather dicates. Fuel is cheap, the Interstates are free and fast and better to escape rather than hanging around for a a couple of days or more if the weather is marginal;  for example Americans think nothing of travelling from LA to Mammoth for a weekend of skiing.

[Paul B]

bit you can live quite comfortably out of a minivan of some sort, which are cheap and cheerful and pretty spacious. I bought a Ford Aerostar and lived out of that pretty well for about 6 weeks. The two back rows of seats folded down to a fairly comfy bed.

I'd probably prefer something a little bigger than a 'minivan'

To get insurance you will need an address you can use, you don't necessarily have to prove you live there.

Her folks have a place in the least helpful part of America possible: Florida. At least it'll come in handy this once!

I personally think you should consider a "best of" and spend longer there, rather than zooming about too much.

maybe my post was misleading. I wasn't hoping to sample everything, more I was trying to suggest that I didn't want conditions due to poor planning/route being the limiting factor. Maybe I need to sit down with a calendar and work out which areas are OK to climb at in any given month.

[SA Chris]

I'd probably prefer something a little bigger than a 'minivan'

Have a look at some pics. two could live quite comfortably, minivans are US for people carriers over here. Lagers' Chevy Astrovan gets the minivan attachment and it's pretty bog. If you are hoping for something like a T4 camper there aren't going to be many second hand going cheap.

[Paul B]

A chevvy Astro would be fine, the aerostar looked a little small. Ford E-series style people carrier or GMC Vandura (a mate is selling one currently) look a more comfortable size.

[ali k]

No advice to give but I'm hoping for some decent info as I'm planning the same trip for some time in the next couple of years (a June - Christmas West Coast rampage).

 

[andyd]

No advice to give but I'm hoping for some decent info as I'm planning the same trip for some time in the next couple of years (a June - Christmas West Coast rampage).

 

Can you get a visa for that long. Sounds awesome if so. Smith to Hueco with everything in between

[pabs]

Also, my rack is likely woefully under-cammed for the big stuff. Can anyone point me at a good (American forum?) resource so I can work out what the hell it is we'd need to buy. Working in a gear shop currently it seems pragmatic to buy as much as I can before leaving.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/forum.php is your best bet for this - they seem to really like giving advice to keen limeys.

[SA Chris]

A chevvy Astro would be fine, the aerostar looked a little small. Ford E-series style people carrier or GMC Vandura (a mate is selling one currently) look a more comfortable size.

Check them for sleeping space. I don't think all of them have seats that fold down to a bed.

[Paul B]

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/forum.php is your best bet for this - they seem to really like giving advice to keen limeys.

advice that extends past "you're going home in a pine box"? 

[tommytwotone]

Interesting - am thinking of a trip out that way next year, I'll only have whatever holiday I've got left from work so it'll be 2 weeks max for me but I'm thinking I'll probably going to fly to Vegas, spend a couple of days there and then head to Bishop.

Will be a bouldering trip for me and I'll be going on my own so I'm assuming that'll add a few quid to the trip but I've realised if I don't get myself over to the States soon I'll never go!

[pabs]

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/forum.php is your best bet for this - they seem to really like giving advice to keen limeys.

advice that extends past "you're going home in a pine box"? 

Well, yes someone will tell you:










Yer Gonna Die!!!!

[Sasquatch]

To start with lets pick the "main destinations".  Based off:

I'd say the main attraction to the US are the bigger routes and the trad stuff.

Assuming bigger routes = 3+pitches, but not really looking at mountaineering style stuff, I'd start the list with:

Yosemite, California
Toulumne, California
Needles, California
Red Rocks, Nevada
Eastern Sierra, California
RMNP, Colorado
Tetons, Wyoming
Cochise, Arizona
Squamish, BC

Since you're looking to start at the end of March/April timeframe, Your surest bet is to start off in Red Rocks.  the days are long enough for the bigger southside stuff, and since alot of the big routes are north facing, they're great when the weather's warm.  Also, it's a good place to intro into big wall stuff.  You can start off with soft 5-10pitch 5.9 and 5.10 bolted routes, and work into the really good trad stuff like epinephrine or rainbow wall.  These are nice because almost all of them can be done in a day if you start early and have effecient systems.  Hang there for 3-4 weeks getting the long route stuff sorted out, then head into yosemite in early May.  If you need someplace else due to weather, it's pretty easy to hit bishop, j-tree, Moab, or Tahoe all from Vegas in a day's drive. 

Yosemite in June can bake.... but the days are long, and the weather's generally mint.  I wouldn't plan on bouldering at all in may/june there, it'll be too hot. 

By the end of June, head either north to Squamish, or east to colorado.  This is where you really have to make a choice.  If you head towards squamish, you have Smith. Leavenworth, Index, Skaha, or keep heading further north into the mountains if you wanted.  Someone mentioned Flower Tower - it's a fly in spot, so you have to catch a plane and it's definitely weather dependant.  If you head East into Colorado, you've got RMNP, Rifle, Vedavoo(sp), Colorado front range(lots there), or into wyoming and the Lander sport climbing or ten sleep canyon sport climbing.   

[duncan]

A non-comprehensive list of possible venues from warmest to coldest (ali k will want to start at the bottom and read up).  I've stretched the concept of West Coast.  It's biased towards trad. climbing but that's the strongest suit of that part of the world; 'best times' are for trad. climbing, the bouldering season may be different.  I’ve not been to Smith Rocks, Zion, or Devil’s Tower in Wyoming but they seem worth a detour.  I wouldn’t rush back to Owens River Gorge.


Joshua Tree

What’s good about it
Single pitch trad. (mostly) routes in stunning desert environment. 
A little bouldering, often pretty highball.
Massive scope: always possible to get away from people.
The ‘third most cosmic place on the planet’ according to UFO experts.

Best time:
October - mid-December; mid-Feb - April.

What’s not so good about it
Cold and windy at night and not much to do after climbing other than take drugs and go wild (perhaps that should go in What’s Good...).
The nearest civilisation isn’t.
Busy areas are carnage at public holidays: think Stanage on May Day weekend without the same exhibition of skill and judgement. I saw three ground-falls in two days over Thanksgiving.
Tweakers.


Bishop

I defer to other’s superior knowledge but, as a mostly non-boulderer, I thought it was great.

 
Red Rocks

What’s good about it
Excellent quality, low stress, multi-pitch trad. and sport routes. 
Decent single-pitch sport, trad. and some bouldering. 
Vegas baby!

Best time
October - mid-December; mid-Feb - April.  Climbing possible nearly all year if you follow the sun or shade.

What’s not so good about it
Park bureaucracy: You have to pay to enter and be out by sundown, a 'late exit' provision is available if you register in advance. 
Vegas...



Indian Creek

What’s good about it
Single pitch cracks in stunning desert environment. 
Ideal workshop to hone your crack climbing skills.

Best time
October - November; March - April

What’s not so good about it
Getting busy during peak holiday times
Cold and windy at night.
Not much to do after climbing other than go to church.


Desert Towers (Utah/Arizona/Colorado)

What’s good about it
Endless amazing summits in stunning desert environment.
Crusher’s inspiring book!

Best time
October - mid-November; April - May.

What’s not so good about it
Not much.


Black Canyon of the Gunnison

What’s good about it
Awe-inspiring long routes.
Very trad. and often very committing.
Looks like a 1500’ version of Gogarth or a more impressive and malevolent Verdon: thesiger and I visited and were quite relieved when it snowed so we could make our excuses and bail.
You won’t be queuing.

Best time
mid-September-October; April-May

What’s not so good about it
Poison Ivy.
Hideous approach gullies - even worse if you have to retreat back up them.
Loose and crumbly rock.


Yosemite

What’s good about it
Its fucking Yosemite! World class everything. Weather generally excellent in season.

Best time
Depends what you want to do.  For long routes, most people favour mid-May - June; mid-September - October.  April and November can be good and are much quieter but you risk being washed out.  Bouldering and low-altitude climbing can be good through the winter. 

What’s not so good about it
Heaving with tourons, difficult to get campsites, limited to 7 days stay during peak season*.  Glacier-polished granite cracks take some getting used to.
Weather not always as good as legend.

I'm incapable of rational judgement about Yosemite but a friend of mine visited recently and put it thus:

“I've never had such a love/hate relationship with any climbing area ever. The climbing is frequently amazing and the place beautiful, but the list of downsides is long - the officialdom, the rather elitist climbing scene, the spitting barefoot trustafarians, the utter lack of anything else to do ... the over-priced fast food outlets, the gimmicky stores, and it is quite impossible to buy a copy of the Economist.”   

*there are work-arounds...


Needles

What’s good about it
Superb multi-pitch trad. in idyllic forest environment.
Quiet and peaceful.

Best time
June-September

What’s not so good about it
A dirt road approach and 45 minute hike but this keeps the riff-raff away.
No print guide book but lots of information online.


Tuolumne Meadows / High Sierras

What’s good about it
Single and multi-pitch trad. in magnificent mountain environment.
Limited amount of bouldering.
Much quieter than Yosemite.

Best time
June-September

What’s not so good about it
Nothing really.


Squamish
What’s good about it
Very good single and multi-pitch trad.
Very good bouldering.
Decent sport climbing.
Friendly locals.

Best time
June-October

What’s not so good about it
It’s not a wilderness.
It rains.

[chillax]

Listen to Duncan, he is wise. I'm in Moab at the moment and have been wandering round the west since the start of October. I wouldn't advise Moab in December too highly. Its lovely when the sun shines and the wind dies during the 6 or 7 hours of daylight, but its damn cold and windy at nights! Indian Creek is lovely though. And not a trustifarian to be seen right now, they're all tripping down in Joshua Tree.

I made the slight tactical error of spending thanksgiving in J Tree. Don't do it. Nightmare. Massive cluster. Oh and ignore the miramontes guide recommendations for eating in Joshua Tree town itself. The Country Kitchen is all kinds of shite. Crossroads Cafe however is the mutts nuts. Best breakfast I've had since my last fry up at the Fair Head caff :-)

In terms of Vehicles, I've been living in an Astro since mid September. Plenty of space if you can keep everything organised. One thing to be aware of is that if you plan to spend a lot of time in Yosemite, they don't let you sleep in your vehicle in Camp 4 (this might be superflous if you've been there before, but I don't know if you have). I have a similar attitude to the Valley as Duncan's friend, having spent a combined 2 months there in the last year or so. The climbing is great, the walls are amazing, everything else is massively annoying.

[Paul B]

Wow, thanks for those in-depth replies. I'll try and digest them shortly (I f*cking love UKB at times like these)...

[Wood FT]

Amazing info, invaluable. These last few posts have made me question what the fuck I'm doing with my life. . . .

[Paul B]

In terms of Vehicles, I've been living in an Astro since mid September.

Can I ask where you sourced it and if you had any problems buying/insuring it (red tape?)?

[abarro81]

Amazing info, invaluable. These last few posts have made me question what the fuck I'm doing with my life. . . .

I'm not even a trad climber any more and I want to go trad climbing in America SO much after reading the above.

[chillax]

In terms of Vehicles, I've been living in an Astro since mid September.

Can I ask where you sourced it and if you had any problems buying/insuring it (red tape?)?

Craigslist in Vancouver. Packed with 2nd hand Astros and Safaris. Cost CAD$1600 with a full spare set of winter tires. Older ( a '97) and with high mileage (265k km), but well maintained and has given me no trouble in the 20,000 odd km I've driven it. Having said that, friends of mine with newer and lower mileage models have had difficulties. Purchase was cash in hand. No problem insuring it as I had an address to use. Just had to go into an office with the previous owners and spen 20 minutes reading forms and signing things. Bear in mind this was in Canada. I'm not sure what the protocol is in America.

[SA Chris]

I bought mine in Colorado and it was pretty easy too, pretty much the same lines; sorted out insurance on phone, went to local equivalent of DVLA with previous owner, did some paperwork and was issued with a new license plate there and then. Make sure you get an international driver's license from the AA before you go. Not sure if having an address different to the state you are buying the vehicle in might be an issue, might be worth checking?

 Also if you are buying a vehicle in California, beware of a smog emissions test you have to get the vehicle to pass before it can be re-registered.

[SA Chris]

Interesting - am thinking of a trip out that way next year, I'll only have whatever holiday I've got left from work so it'll be 2 weeks max for me but I'm thinking I'll probably going to fly to Vegas, spend a couple of days there and then head to Bishop.

Will be a bouldering trip for me and I'll be going on my own so I'm assuming that'll add a few quid to the trip but I've realised if I don't get myself over to the States soon I'll never go!

You could fly to Reno; cheaper and closer to Bishop. Like Vegas only a bit shitter. Or fly vegas, spend a few days bouldering at Red Rocks and enjoying vegas nights, then go Vegas -> Joes Valley -> Ibex -> Bishop - Vegas. Bit of driving, but that's what rest days are for. Plus it's fun driving - long open flat roads with great scenery.

[Paul B]

I bought mine in Colorado and it was pretty easy too, pretty...

Its looking as if Vegas might be the place we'll end up buying. Craigslist looks great and after a bit of digging it seems the word 'conversion' throws up a number of vans that look like what I'm after (and some PIMP wagons).

I've just been reading into buying and insuring in the states and it made me a bit nervous, I'm glad people here have had less trouble.

Now, how about Visas? The standard visa waiver only entitles you to 90 days and you need to have flights booked for departure (from the continent not just the USA). Has anyone here applied for a B2 visa for a 6 month trip?

[Johnny Brown]

Check how long you need to leave for before re-entry - a month in Squamish/ Bugaboos might do it.

[Grubes]

not sure that would work a quick google found this:
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/194/~/visa-waiver-program---eligible-countries

While in the U.S., you may go to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean and re-enter the U.S. using the I-94 admission notation you were issued on your VWP passport when you first arrived in the U.S., although the time you spend there is included in the 90 days allotted for your visit.
 
If you go to Canada and Mexico or the Caribbean, and while you are there, your initial 90-day period of entry expires, but you need to come back in to the U.S. to fly home, you may encounter a problem. The terms of the VWP are very clear - it is only to be used for occasional, short visits to the U.S. If the CBP Officer thinks you are trying to "reset" the clock by making a short trip out of the U.S. and re-entering for another 90-day period, you can be denied entry. (If that happens, you will have to obtain a visa for any future travel to the U.S.) In order to be re-admitted to the U.S. shortly after a previous admission expired, you will have to convince a CBP Officer that you are not trying to "game" the system.