[Styx]

Ok, this has been doing my head in for weeks now, I can't decide whether to invest in a pair of Solutions or Blackwings so I figured I'd throw it out to the UKB collective to see what you fine chaps come up with...

I boulder around v6, lead 6c+ but looking to push both grades by a few notches by the time I move out the US again in early spring. Climbing will mostly be on edgey quartz, sandstone (new river/red river gorge) and some granite thrown in for good measure.

I'm honestly really happy with my Miura VS but I'd like to save them for trad and get something softer for indoors and harder stuff. I really miss my old Arrowheads which were nice and soft and toed in to small holds beautifully, I'd get another pair but the heel was shit.

Both Solutions and Blackwings seem to fit me really well, though the heel on the Solution is slightly more form fitting and the Blackwings toebox feels a tiny bit more precise/softer... argh... help?!

[weakdave]

Blackwings are only 75 quid on bananafingers if that helps your decision?

[Styx]

Blackwings are only 75 quid on bananafingers if that helps your decision?

That just complicates things more! I was leaning a little more toward the Solutions last night, but now I'm just as confused as I ever was, sigh!

[thrashhard]

Both shoes will suck a lot for sandstone and granite smearing.
For 6c+ Routeclimbing you won´t need or be happy with any of that shoes.

[Styx]

Both shoes will suck a lot for sandstone and granite smearing.
For 6c+ Routeclimbing you won´t need or be happy with any of that shoes.

The sandstone in particular is nothing like what we have here, think overhanging pocket pulling and big roofs. I know I'll mainly be using my Miura VS for most routes outside, I'm mainly looking to get a more aggressive/softer shoe for bouldering and thrashing indoors so I don't end up with a floppy/worn pair of Miura's.

[b3n99]

Blackwings actually smear really well I think because their soft. I would go dragons...

[Styx]

Blackwings actually smear really well I think because their soft. I would go dragons...

Interesting... Sadly the Dragon heel is shite on my foot too, the Blackwing's a bit narrower in the heel so it fits me better but still not as well as the Solution.

If only I could have the back end of a Solution and the front of a Blackwing, that'd be winner winner chicken dinner.

[joe dobson]

The Blackwings are mega soft, solutions are more stiffer. No point wasting solution rubber indoors, I'm actually changing from Solution to Miura VS for a general downturned shoe as the solution heel it pants, can't feel anything in them.

Go for blackwings for indoors thrashing, I had a pair and found that was the only place they worked well.

[iwasmexican]

cant comment on either but what i can say is teams all the way

[ghisino]

can't comment on blackwings

i recently got my 1st pair of solutions, used them on plastic,  pocketed limestone and a couple of problems in font.

heel: still didn't test properly...the obvious pro is the precision - well secured on your foot and VERY stiff. The stiffness is also the big downside: zero sensitivity... it should work well once you get the feel for it.

front: of course it toes-in wonderfully, possibly being the most downturned shoe you can get???.
It's not as asymmetric as you can imagine and quite pointy and as another shoe i have with a similar shape, it means two things:
-it has a rather narrow "edging sweetspot" right at the big toe. the actual edges are only useful on relatively big footholds.
-smears can feel weird.
-it works a treat in small pockets.


overall i was more impressed indoors and on limestone than in font - but it's still quite new and maybe it will do better when it gets softer, in font i tend to like two extremes : either very soft shoes or drytooling boots (anasazi blanco)

[thrashhard]

there are two things tha make me wonder:
1.
Blackwings and Solutions are two of the most expensive shoes on the market? I wonder why anyone would shred them down on plastic walls?
There are no bad footholds on indoorwalls. even the smallest hold (we call them spax dunno what you call them) is good enough that you don´t need any special shoe.

2. Why is everyone so obsessed wiht downturned shoes. Ok yeah for hard 90° boulders, but for 6c+ Routes?
Downturn makes "real" smearing weak. i´m not talking about boulders where you maybe have one or two smearing holds, i´m talking about 35m routes with nothing to step on.
There are a lot of old school faceclimb crags around here (where people don´t come because the routes are rated too hard  ) where exellent smearing and footwork on minipockets is required (old school-edlinger style). every time you watch some "indoor hero newb" trying some routes with shoes like solutions or boosters they are cursing and blaming the rock and the shoes etc...
what you need on routes like that is some straight shoe like a katana, anasazi, maybe lace miuras. Those are shoes for smearing and routes. you will never get as much surface on the rock with a solution/blackwing even if they are soft.
i would never go routes in one of them unless they are 90 degree roofs.


PS: i forgot. A friend of mine once cut his old solutions in half to look why the heel is that stiff and he found out that there is a piece of plstic formed like a cup inside. Thats why the solution heel is so stiff

[Wipey Why]

Have you tried the Pythons on?  I prefer them to the Solution as they are nice and soft and they are cheaper.

[cha1n]

I've used Dragons on routes up to 7c and the heel isn't a fantastic fit for me, the truth is that you don't often have to use a heel on routes and even when you do, a slight bit of movement in the heel doesn't really matter.

I've also bouldered many problems up to 7B and yes, the heel flattens out slightly when pulling hard because of the little bit of deadspace but I've never had a heel pop because of it. I guess what I'm saying is, was the arrowhead heel THAT bad? If you liked all other aspects? Did you try the quantum? It's the lace version of the arrowhead and the laces might help you cinch the heel in a bit.

Solution vs Blackwing? I've blacklisted the solution because of its heel, but then again I have large (UK10 street) feet and it's too wide and bulky in a EU42 and is also too solid for smeary heel hooks (in my opinion). I'd go for the blackwings if they are almost as good as the solution (though personally, I don't get on with them and wear dragons).

The guy who suggested pythons could be onto a winner, I'd wear them myself if they weren't too narrow/low volume for me. Much better heel than the solution.

[Sasquatch]

Not tried the dragons, but the solutions are both good and bad. 

Good:  Toe hooking and pulling with your toes.

Bad: Heel hooking.

They fit the heel well, so you'd think the heel hook well, but they constantly skate off holds I change out to a miura lace or vs, or any other shoe I have and the heel stick.  The solutions always skate unless its a jug.. I don't get it..

[Nibile]

The Solutions are my heel hooking shoe of choice. Only, they need room. The heel is thick and stiff, it doesn't move or change shape on holds, but in narrow placements or when you need to roll onto it it's likely to pop out. Teams or Dragons in that case, with other pros (narrow heels), and cons (the heels are soft and they change shape and leave empty spots).

[Drew]

I think the Solution heel is awesome for heel hooking. For my feet they worked well on Brad Pit for pulling in, and rocking onto it, and again on Monochrome for pulling against a flatish wall.

Saying that, I think (at least on BP) that the Dragon heel is even better.

[Paul B]

sorry, just to confirm, on Brad Pit?

[Stubbs]

Have you done Brad Pit Drew? 

[cha1n]

I think the stiffer heels (I class even the Muira heel as stiff) as good for pain tolerance and it's sometimes helpful to know there isn't going to be much movement but I still prefer a bit of sensitivity myself.

Like I say, the solution heel is stupidly wide in a EU42 (my size) but for those with smaller feet the heel might not be too bad, relatively speaking. I always pay close attention to people's heels in videos when they are wearing solutions and it's not unusual to see the heel skate about on smeary placements. Even the latest vid of Paul Robinson in Swizzy there's a few occasions when it happens.

I've worn lots of shoes and I'm still yet to find something that beats the dragons for all round performance.