[Muenchener]

Please someone just do some press ups, start worrying about subtleties later

Please someone just do some (Insert basic exercise), start worrying about subtleties later

That sentence applies to almost all threads under the training and injuries tab!

So on a whim I downloaded runtastic PushuUps PRO

Does breaking the physical barrier of 100 push-ups seem impossible to you?

With the runtastic PushUps PRO app you can now achieve this goal.

100 reps in a single set seems rather pointless, actually. Otoh it is twice as many as I have ever done in my life and four times as many as I can do at the moment, so it certainly wouldn't have occurred to me to try it if I hadn't seen this app.

Let's see.

Started at Level 2 Workout 1 as recommended by the rigorous intro questionnaire (How many pushups can you already do? Twenty or more? Level 2* **).  A total of 62 reps in 5 sets. Seems about right: I made it but had to push hard on the last couple of reps of the last couple of sets.

It's a pretty simple app but has a cool gimmick: touch the screen with your nose to count reps. My 9 yo son finds it hilarious when it refuses to score a clear top touch, ignores my protests and I have to do an extra rep.

(*) This is more encouraging for me than lagers' survey results, where I am somewhere near the bottom of Level 1.
(**) It doesn't have quite as many levels as Angry Birds

[tommytwotone]

Had a mate who was well into this along with all of the lads in his office a couple of years back - apparently they were all mad keen to be the first to get to the mythical 100 in a set until they all mysteriously developed elbow tendon injuries!

[slackline]

Android version (Free alternative from different publisher who also does a sit-ups and squats version).


What survey of lagers are you referring to?

[Muenchener]

What survey of lagers are you referring to?

 , bugger, slip of the keyboard / failure to fact-check before typing. Was referring to your survey. Sorry.

[Muenchener]

they all mysteriously developed elbow tendon injuries!

Yes, I had thought about that and will be careful.

But I think balance is key here - would I be right in guessing that they weren't doing much by way of pullups or steep bouldering? I otoh am mainly interested in doing more pressups because if I don't, then my elbows get rather sore rather quickly when I boulder.

[tommytwotone]

Yeah, I think they were pretty much all desk-bound "lads"!

I don't think you can argue with the benefits of doing some pushups for a climber...I should really do more of them after a session. And some stretching too.

 

[John Gillott]

they all mysteriously developed elbow tendon injuries!

Yes, I had thought about that and will be careful.

But I think balance is key here - would I be right in guessing that they weren't doing much by way of pullups or steep bouldering? I otoh am mainly interested in doing more pressups because if I don't, then my elbows get rather sore rather quickly when I boulder.

If the purpose is to avoid injuries by exercising the non pulling muscles, then 3 or 4 sets of 15 a few times a week would be a better idea I'd have thought.

If, on the other hand, the idea is to do 100 pushups in a session...

[tommytwotone]

"...when 100 pushups aren't hard any more and 15 is approaching a rest..."

[dr_botnik]

tried doing a mini circuit with pushups/pullups/squats/situps after a decent warm up, my right shoulder now hurts to do even basic things like turning a steering wheel/pushing doors closed/etc, thought i was making the most of a wet day 

[Rocksteady]

When I was into martial arts and before I got into climbing I built up to being able to do a set of 100 push ups. In those days we used to do multiple sets of 50.

Didn't noticeably make me amazingly strong or immune to injury.

I would have said that pushups don't really proof your shoulders/elbows against injury either - may improve muscle strength but you'd need to do theraband stuff or stuff with light weights to work your rotator cuffs, which are usually what goes wrong.

Nowadays I seem to be able to do about 30 push ups in a set, which doesn't seem to prevent elbow or shoulder injuries anyway.

I guess if you're very weak at pushing might be worth doing, for balance, as mentioned above.

[slackline]

Nowadays I seem to be able to do about 30 push ups in a set, which doesn't seem to prevent elbow or shoulder injuries anyway.

You could probably do with doing more press-ups, perhaps work up to sets of 100!

[Muenchener]

If the purpose is to avoid injuries by exercising the non pulling muscles, then 3 or 4 sets of 15 a few times a week would be a better idea I'd have thought.

I was doing precisely that and it seemed to be working, judging by the relatively non-complaining state of my eblows in the current bouldering training round.

The "100 pushups" thing was just a whim; I stumbled across it whilst browing the app store for other reasons. I'll see how it goes.

(Incidentally, are you the John Gillott of whom I remeber seeing a picture in Crags long, long ago?)

[John Gillott]

Yes, older and balder now.

[Stenno]

I would have said that pushups don't really proof your shoulders/elbows against injury either

This is true if you solely do standard pressups the whole time but each different hand position (wide, staggered, diamond, narrow) puts emphasis on a different area of the shoulder and if you train them all you can effectively strengthen a large portion of the shoulder muscles.  Of course you're right though that for rotator cuff training internal and external dumbell/resistance band rotations can't be beaten.

[Rocksteady]

I would have said that pushups don't really proof your shoulders/elbows against injury either

This is true if you solely do standard pressups the whole time but each different hand position (wide, staggered, diamond, narrow) puts emphasis on a different area of the shoulder and if you train them all you can effectively strengthen a large portion of the shoulder muscles.  Of course you're right though that for rotator cuff training internal and external dumbell/resistance band rotations can't be beaten.

Sure - your shoulders get strong across a wide range of muscles. I used to do diamond, uneven grip, stairs, wide grip, hindu press ups. Could never get the hang of handstand push ups though.
My contention is that while these make your muscles stronger, I don't think it makes it less likely you'll get injured. For me, shoulder injuries usually seem to be to do with the tendons/rotator cuffs. At the same time I used to do lots of press ups I used to get shoulder impingement.

So press ups for muscle strength - fine. Personally unconvinced they do anything to prevent shoulder injuries.

Everything in balance!

[slackline]

So press ups for muscle strength - fine. Personally unconvinced they do anything to prevent shoulder injuries.

But don't most use them as a means of preventing elbow injuries rather than shoulder?

(At least thats the most common context I see it mentioned in).

[Barratt]

 

Yes, older and balder now.

You missed fatter

[quiffhanger]

So press ups for muscle strength - fine. Personally unconvinced they do anything to prevent shoulder injuries.

But don't most use them as a means of preventing elbow injuries rather than shoulder?

(At least thats the most common context I see it mentioned in).

I thought so too.

Anecdotaly pullups, lockoffs & campus training used to quickly give me sore elbows. Now, for every pullup-type exercise I do, I do 2 pushups. So I always follow 10 pullups by 20 pushups. I've since found I can handle a much greater volume which has really helped my develop my raw pulling power.

If only I could get my fingers to keep up too...

[Muenchener]

So press ups for muscle strength - fine. Personally unconvinced they do anything to prevent shoulder injuries.

But don't most use them as a means of preventing elbow injuries rather than shoulder?

I thought so too.

Anecdotaly pullups, lockoffs & campus training used to quickly give me sore elbows. Now, for every pullup-type exercise I do, I do 2 pushups. So I always follow 10 pullups by 20 pushups. I've since found I can handle a much greater volume which has really helped my develop my raw pulling power.

Agree with most of this. My current focus with the pressups is preventing elbow problems, for which they seem to be working. I can see how especially for shoulder impingement issues they could be counterproductive, and I do other things for shoulder health - overhead squats at the moment mostly, in an attempt to acquire a semi-reasonable level of mobility.

In general, though, I have found that balance is good. When I used to do lots of pullups and few pushing exercises I had sore shoulders all the time. When I switched to doing equal numbers of pullups & dips, my shoulders were fine.

("Statistics" is the plural of "anecdote", right?)

[Stenno]

My contention is that while these make your muscles stronger, I don't think it makes it less likely you'll get injured. For me, shoulder injuries usually seem to be to do with the tendons/rotator cuffs.

So press ups for muscle strength - fine. Personally unconvinced they do anything to prevent shoulder injuries.

Everything in balance!
[/quote]

I'd have to disagree based on experience, I was suffering from dull shoulder pain at the start and after bouldering sessions which got worse over a few months. After talking to multiple friends with similar experiences they recommended a regime of different styles of pushups and it worked wonders. If climbing is your sole form of strength based exercise you will eventually suffer injuries or niggling pain as a result of muscle imbalance and pushups are the perfect way to prevent injuries of this kind.

[Rocksteady]

What I'm taking from this is that there's no panacea.

For me press ups don't help my shoulder imbalances, whereas this stuff does:
http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/one-workout-every-climber-should-do

Press ups also don't help me with elbow tweaks whereas the antagonist exercises with little dumbbells do.

For others they clearly work, for elbows and shoulders.

Depends on the nature and root cause of your problem I guess. 

[Stenno]

Very true, a whole range of factors means that everyones weakest link in the shoulder will be different and I guess the best thing to do is try the whole range of antagonist strengthening exercises till you can determine which one will best solve your problem.

[Dolly]

I agree its worth looking at a range of exercises - or much better going to see a physio.
Shoulders are pretty complex joints and IMLU different causes may have similar presentations or symptoms.
We also compensate for little imbalances and injuries without us consciously knowing that's what we're doing.


I had one imbalance earlier this year but now have another injury (SIS) which may have been caused by overcompensation. Luckily I'm seeing Val Jones who has fixed in her own words "well into triple figures" of climbers with injuries like mine, not to mention Steve Peat, Tracy Moseley and others. 
http://http://www.shoulderdoc.co.uk/ is a site she recommends


As well as various exercises she says I should climb as often as I can

[Duma]

("Statistics" is the plural of "anecdote", right?)

No, that's anecdata

[Pebblespanker]

Reading this reminded me of the UKs 'most dangerous prisoner' the wonderfully names Charles Bronson, he claims to do up to 6,000 press-ups per day and has done 1700+ in an hour! 

He is regarded as something of a fitness guru and has produced a book about his methods.

Some details of his achievements here http://dapperism.com/charlie-bronsons-prison-workout/  with a classic Bronson photo, plenty more on t'interweb

  Apologies as this is perhaps more suitable in Feats of Strength thread