[Stenno]

Sorry for another thread on an overdone topic, but I think the focus of this one is different to the others I've read on here.

I've read on here some theories that part of the reason Malc was so bomb proof himself in the shoulders and body was the years he spent strengthening his whole body in the gym, which makes  sense to me from a punters perspective.

Is it possible to bomb proof your shoulders through a disciplined strengthening routine? I've been experiencing a mild but growing pain over the last few months at the start and end of a session and have now decided that it's time to take some time off climbing to recover and hopefully strengthen my shoulders which have always been my weakest link. My main focus in climbing is overhanging power-oriented style bouldering.

Has anyone had any experience with taking some time off to put serious effort into strengthening their shoulders? Were the benefits noticeable when you got back into climbing?

The plan as it stand right now is:

Two weeks of no activity but very gentle traversing to maintain a good level of blood flow and some muscle activity.

Two weeks of antagonistic work, focusing upon shoulders but also properly working the chest, triceps and elbow antagonists.

And then get back into climbing while maintaining the disciplined antagonist routine.

[Moo]

I've done quite a lot of eccentric physio exercises focused on the shoulder and tricep area, seemed to help a lot. The key is slow movement in one direction which lengthens the muscle but also strengthens it at the same time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_contraction#Eccentric_contraction

Be careful though it's easy to overdo it.

[erm, sam]

I am getting the impression that having good posture and avoiding typical climbing/general poor posture issues such as kyphosis (which manifest as "sore shoulders" etc)is a lifes work. Some easy climbing for a couple of weeks to allow a sore shoulder to calm down sounds very sensible, but building the correct muscle, relearning neural firing patterns, gaining lost range of movement etc will take a tad more than a couple of weeks. A good thing to do, but a long term mission rather than a quick fix.
The man on www.mobilitywod.com he has a lot to say about shoulder mobility, amongst other things.

[douglas]

I would be very interested to read some replies on this. I think in combination with front core and back core, shoulder work is very important. Generally, I would suggest that through the nature of the joint there is no single exercise that fits. A good starting point would be dumbell work, presses and side and front raises, but also gymnastic ring work, of which I know nothing.

Knowledge of big Malc's routines is very welcome!

[TobyD]

Is it possible to bomb proof your shoulders through a disciplined strengthening routine?

Were the benefits noticeable when you got back into climbing?

The plan as it stand right now is:
Two weeks of no activity but very gentle traversing to maintain a good level of blood flow and some muscle activity.
Two weeks of antagonistic work, focusing upon shoulders but also properly working the chest, triceps and elbow antagonists.
And then get back into climbing while maintaining the disciplined antagonist routine.

My tuppence, in order as above

No, but you can minimise the chance of sustaining an overuse injury.

If shoulder strength is the limiting factor in your climbing, I'd say it would pay dividends. However, my guess is that it isn't for many people.

That sounds like a reasonable plan, with the proviso that you listen to your shoulder, and don't start to increase intensity on it until activity is totally pain free, even if this takes a lot longer than you have planned. Shoulder operations are best avoided. Good luck! (and yoga is a perfect shoulder activity which balances climbing nicely)

[Stenno]

Cheers for the replies so far, some good points raised.

Definitely agree that correcting the muscle imbalance is a long term commitment, the four weeks away from climbing were intended to reduce pain and aggravation rather than solve the issue completely. When I start climbing again I'll keep up or even intensify the antagonist strengthening routine.

If anyones interested in a routine I'm trying this (3x a week):

Wide, normal, narrow, staggered and diamond pressups. 3 sets of 50 (10 of each hand position)
Front and side dumbbell raises, internal and external dumbbell rotations. (4 sets of 10)
Dips on parallel bars. (4 sets of 15)

For the dumbbell exercises I'm focusing upon slow controlled motion holding the dumbbell statically at the peak of the raise for around 3 seconds in an effort to replicate the combination of dynamic and static strength that climbing involves, although that could be a load of bollocks.

[iwasmexican]

If anyones interested in a routine I'm trying this (3x a week):

Wide, normal, narrow, staggered and diamond pressups. 3 sets of 50 (10 of each hand position)
Front and side dumbbell raises, internal and external dumbbell rotations. (4 sets of 10)
Dips on parallel bars. (4 sets of 15)

personally i reckon if you re going to be doing excercises like that you may as well get on the rings, everything feels so much harder and get all up on all kinds of muscles

[a dense loner]

 Stenno, if ure doin 4 sets of 15 dips at the end of a session uve not got weak shoulders

[Stenno]

Sorry Dense I should have been more specific. I think its specifically my rotator cuff which is weak, I've always done dips and normal pushups as antagonistic training but have never done any of the rotational work and dumbbell raises before.

[jmews]

This has some specific advice regarding rotator cuffs. I have used it as a preemptive measure when I felt some light tweaking on a few occasions. I pick and choose from the exercises rather than running through as a whole routine. The sitting dumbbell raise with elbow held in position really works my rotator cuff


http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/one-workout-every-climber-should-do

[Duma]

This has some specific advice regarding rotator cuffs. I have used it as a preemptive measure when I felt some light tweaking on a few occasions. I pick and choose from the exercises rather than running through as a whole routine. The sitting dumbbell raise with elbow held in position really works my rotator cuff


http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/one-workout-every-climber-should-do

I've had that page bookmarked since someone linked it on here about a year ago, really good stuff.

[thekettle]

I've learnt this one the hard way (surgery to both shoulders) and would second the advice to look closely at your posture as a priority.
There are countless exercises you can do for shoulder mobility and strength but at best you're wasting you time on many of them, as only a few specific ones will apply to you. See a physio who's known for their biomechanical knowledge (or a biomechanics coach if you can afford one!) and get assessed.
For me it didn't matter how strong or stable my shoulders were, as long as I stood, sat and moved with poor posture they had no chance. Even if your posture/movement is great a physio visit will put you one step ahead of further shoulder problems.

[fatdoc]

Stenno,

U r a Beast.

Kettle, bang on.
after ripping both cuffs on a 45 day siege of the Oak 15 yrs ago my interests in life changed.

I now need very stable strong shoulders to hold a DH MTB to the floor at 20mph for 4 mins at a time. Upper limb power was my failing in MTB for years...

Answer....


Loads of punter yoga DVD sessions in my lounge.. Usually before work.. Then free weights.. 40 mins of 20 to 3o reps of about 8 basic exercises 3 times in 10 days.

Move on to reps of 10 lateral planks... Do 30 reps a day.

= stable shoulders after 12 months, good posture, no chronic back pain ( v severe before.. Previous fractures)

My message, keep the whole shoulder joint complex supple and strong in every direction, and stop the climbers classic hunched posture.

[Stenno]

My message, keep the whole shoulder joint complex supple and strong in every direction, and stop the climbers classic hunched posture.

Cheers for sharing some great personal experiences Kettle and Fat Doc and that last bit is exactly what I'm aiming for now, bomb proof in terms of a high level of balanced shoulder strength. Just to be sure is a DH MTB a downhill mountain bike?

That DPM article has a great range of exercises, cheers to those who recommended it.

Bit of feedback on the antagonist regime, I'm noticing quick improvements and pain reduction which has continued after starting climbing again. The interior/exterior dumbbell rotations and the diamond pushups seem to have been the most beneficial but I guess every person will have a different area of weakness in their shoulders so its worth trying everything to identify it. I'm sure loads of people on UKB have been through all this and made the same discoveries already so sorry for stating the obvious to many!