[miso soup]

http://davemacleod.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/what-have-we-done.html?spref=fb

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/20/irvine-welsh-scottish-independence-glorious-failure

The Glasgow Sunday Herald was the only paper in the UK that backed a Yes vote.  Glasgow voted Yes.  45% of the country voted Yes despite virtually all the mainstream media telling them not to.  If the media represented the people and 45% of the press had backed a Yes vote then it would have been Yes.  Manufactured consent.

[Moo]

Sorry Miso but I've got to disagree. The media reported on everything including the gaping gaps in Salmonds arguments for independence.

 It's not as if they were complimentary of the No campaign which as we all know was really badly run. I think the Yes campaign was quite well ran considering that what they had to go on was 'We really love Scotland' and they carried all of their momentum well which is why it was a close vote. I fear that if both camps had been able to put up a similarly well ran campaign it would have been a much more overwhelming No.

I haven't heard anyone here start talking about conspiracy's on herre yet. The guys on the rig are convinced it's a fix but I can't really blame them for nursing their bruises on something they were genuinelly passionate about.

[Fultonius]

Someone posted a video with a pile of Yes votes on a no table. Not sure what was going on but I very much doubt there was anything behind it.

The media was firmly on the NO side. Every negative article got instantly published with no fact checking. Even when they published pro-independence articles they always came with caveats and "balanced" with alternative views.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/16/media-shafted-people-scotland-journalists

[Jaspersharpe]

Fuck's sake. Try googling the "pile of Yes votes" thing. Simple explanation vs conspiracy theory.

We're entering David Icke territory. Maybe it was something to do with charges set by the CIA in the second tower.

I didn't read a newspaper or watch any tv about the referendum and based on what I could find out I agreed with the No campaign. This included reading lots of pro Yes stuff from people I usually respect (e.g. Irvine Welsh, despite the fact that he lives in America now). I based my view on the facts I found.

With the massive turnout and with this being one of the only votes you could call truly democratic I reckon it's a bit daft to start calling the media card on it.

Many people voted with their heart, many people bothered to think before voting. Some were swayed by one thing or another. Important thing was that most people voted so it's true democracy rather than (e.g) Farage claiming victory with about 6% of the possible vote.

This can be the massive positive thing from all this. People realising that their vote can make a difference. Even with our current system, if everyone voted they could make a huge difference.

I doubt it'll happen though. Without a flag to wave, people don't care. Which is quite scary.

[Fultonius]

Maybe I'm living in a "google filter bubble" but when I google for "pile of yes votes" I don't get any useful sites - just more conspiracy bollocks. I don't for a minute think anything fishy was going on, but I'm yet to find a good explanation!

[Jaspersharpe]

Sorry, I didn't Google it, just saw it pan out on Twitter.

The votes were in piles which hadn't been counted and the table was for when they had been.

[Jaspersharpe]

E.g.

Has this pic and the video showing 'Yes' votes on a 'No' table been looked into and explained yet? #indyref
http://twitter.com/RajBaddhan/status/512751678697664512/photo/1


https://twitter.com/TheMurdochTimes/status/512957628234743809



If you check the reply you can see that the OP has realised it's bollocks.

[tomtom]

I thought that there was a No bias in the media. I linked to Monbiots commentary on the issue way back in this thread..

Also - in the last week you had no campaign (darling) then Labour, Torys and Lib Dems saying no - and SNP for the yes.. Media seemed to reflect the volume of material rather than the balance.. Lots of little things on the BBC site like always having a no pic first up on their homepage (would then scroll to a yes later etc..).

Anyway now it's back in Westminster I expect to political carpet being raised and the issue swept beneath..

[Jaspersharpe]

The Scottish media was slightly different though.

Lest we forget that it wasn't us who actually had the vote.
 *wall collapses after too much banging head against it*

[tomtom]

The Scottish media was slightly different though.

Lest we forget that it wasn't us who actually had the vote.
 *wall collapses after too much banging head against it*

But was it..? after all - they get the same news channels and national news as us non? All bar one of the Scottish ed/papers were pro no... I think theres still some wall left for you over there....

[Sloper]

I thought that there was a No bias in the media. I linked to Monbiots commentary on the issue way back in this thread..

Also - in the last week you had no campaign (darling) then Labour, Torys and Lib Dems saying no - and SNP for the yes.. Media seemed to reflect the volume of material rather than the balance.. Lots of little things on the BBC site like always having a no pic first up on their homepage (would then scroll to a yes later etc..).

Anyway now it's back in Westminster I expect to political carpet being raised and the issue swept beneath..

The No bias int he media was spectacular, but that doesn't mean that the 'yes' campaign won't haunt Parliament like a bad scooby doo episode.

[SA Chris]

Accht. These folk passionately believe in something fultonius, we can only hope they don't breed too successfully and will slowly dwindle away. No-one really attributes those people to Glasgow let alone Scotland let alone humanity.

Maybe that's too harsh.

True. It's just the same pricks who use Rangers/Celtic as an excuse to be cunts. Not surprising, just sad.

Stories are circulating that a bus load of BNP supporters were responsible for stirring, and was them singing, waving flags and generally looking to stir shit.

[rodma]

Accht. These folk passionately believe in something fultonius, we can only hope they don't breed too successfully and will slowly dwindle away. No-one really attributes those people to Glasgow let alone Scotland let alone humanity.

Maybe that's too harsh.

True. It's just the same pricks who use Rangers/Celtic as an excuse to be cunts. Not surprising, just sad.

Stories are circulating that a bus load of BNP supporters were responsible for stirring, and was them singing, waving flags and generally looking to stir shit.

I think I've finally reached referendum information saturation point Chris

As a result I'm afraid I don't feel happy, sad, angry or relieved with that nugget of info (or misinfo if that's what it proves to be)

I'd really like it if the media gave no coverage to this particular group of, let's call them protesters for the sake of argument. A small bunch of folk behave like dicks and get a massive amount of coverage for their meagre efforts, which must feel like a real victory for them.

[Sloper]

There's more than enough idiots to go around, I can recall Scottish football fans singing 'so surrender, so surrender, no surrender to the IRA' during the peace process.

I don't think the BNP (fuckwits as they are) were needed

[cofe]

Frankie reflects.

[SA Chris]

going to get interesting

[duncan]

EU passport please

[Oldmanmatt]

Y'know, good on her.
It might be a hassle and a risk for those who don't want Indepenence, but the hegemony of Westminster needs to be challenged.


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[tomtom]

Brexit changes the game. Both staying in U.K. In a Brexit scenario (i.e. Now) and becoming independent leaves Scotland (and U.K.) up shit creek without a paddle. At least if independent Scotland can navigate shit creek without being tied to the English boat....

I think they'd get it - whilst there may be less oil £££ on the table now, there's less to lose imho.

[petejh]

Y'know, good on her.
It might be a hassle and a risk for those who don't want Indepenence, but the hegemony of Westminster Brussels needs to be challenged.


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Change one word and it could be brexit. You're not so happy about that.

[Oldmanmatt]

Y'know, good on her.
It might be a hassle and a risk for those who don't want Indepenence, but the hegemony of Westminster Brussels needs to be challenged.


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Change one word and it could be brexit. You're not so happy about that.

Nope.
The idea that we were under the thumb of Europe was/is false.
The Westminster hegemony is very real. You've never lived under a European law, ever; you have only ever lived under acts of Parliament (some of which incorporate EU legislation). Scotland has been, absolutely, controlled by England for centuries.
Are they allowed to levee their own taxes?
We can.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Interestingly, what they want, is a second referendum; based on the situation being different from that described at the time of the first.
Strangely, they seem to think it might be something too important to leave to a single, badly run, referendum.
Wonder what gave them that idea?

[i.munro]

Nope.
The idea that we were under the thumb of Europe was/is false.

Also Scotland is likely to suffer even more, economically, from Brexit than the rest of the U.K. whereas the economic damage from  leaving the U.K. seems to be much less certain.

[mrjonathanr]

Scotland is likely to find power repatriated to Westminster from Brussels, not to Holyrood.

[Oldmanmatt]

Today, I shall mostly be putting in a bulk order for popcorn and snacks...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-referendum-irish-unity-sinn-fein-second-scottish-independence-indyref2-a7628591.html?cmpid=facebook-post


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[i.munro]

Scotland is likely to find power repatriated to Westminster from Brussels, not to Holyrood.

   

The one thing we've learnt from this fiasco is that power resides in none of those places but in Wapping.