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Weight trainng for climbing (Read 5049 times)

TobyD

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Weight trainng for climbing
October 10, 2012, 03:09:43 pm
An article i thought was interesting, and had some sensible things to say.

http://www.highinfatuation.com/blog/weight-training-for-climbing-102/


ghisino

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#1 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 11, 2012, 04:40:59 pm
interesting

on roughly the same subject (don't want to open a separate thread) anyone has opinions on how to mix weights (+hangboard, swissball, bodyweight work) and climbing on the same day?



-before or after climbing? Or in between 2 climbing stints?
-how much lifting and how much climbing?
-rest between the two sub-sessions?


knowing that if i go to the gym then i have 3 or 4 hours to spend there and that i am trying to put in a month of two of "foundation work" before progressively switching to hi-quality low-volume during december and hopefully having a great shape and great conditions in january and february.

the gym offers a lot of bouldering with a good variety of inclinations and styles, even if the dominant style is comp-like techyness.
There's always something interesting to do even if you're trashed but this also means that for sure i won't get on the most powerful stuff if i'm too sore.

slackline

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#2 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 11, 2012, 04:49:24 pm
Something might be gleaned from Powerlifting before Beastmaker?

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#3 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 11, 2012, 06:09:19 pm
I have been doing the following:

Deadlifts, assisted one armers, power cleans, bench press, bent over rows.

I'm going to sack the bench press because its hurting my shoulder and move to dumbell based shoulder work. Does anyone have recommendations for exercises to build robust shoulders? They seem to take a proper hammering climbing....

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#4 Re: Weight training for climbing
October 11, 2012, 10:59:34 pm
Here's some stuff a friend of mine into weight lifting gave me:

Quote
I hold to the model of having main main exercises, supplemental exercises, and auxiliary exercises for each type of movement that I wish to train. 

A Main exercise involves pretty much every muscle group of a fundamental movement type.  For example, some main exercises for the movement of upper body pushing would be Bench Press, Dips, etc.

A Supplemental exercise has a much smaller demand on the Central Nervous System and involves less muscles coordinating together.  It focuses on a specific part of what is involved in a main movement and aims to train that part.  For example, in upper body pushing a supplemental exercise could be triceps pushdowns, or it could be dumbell flys for the chest.  Each of those supplemental exercises isolates a smaller part of the larger category upper body pushing and trains that part.  I think these exercises are incredibly key, but many people neglect them because they think curls and triceps pushdowns are for frat boys, and that you can get all you need from just performing main exercises.  I used to think that way, but now I have seen the light.

An Auxiliary exercise trains a very small and specific part of the larger movement.  Most of the auxiliary exercises that I do for the upper body involve training the rotator cuff in an effort to keep my shoulders working properly.  Most of these exercises are aimed at keeping healthy, I didn't choose most of them because I thought they emulated a specific thing I might encounter while climbing or because I really felt like I needed to be strong at them for their own sake.  Rather, being strong at these small things allows the body to become stronger at the bigger things and keeps you injury free.

Here are the types of movement that I think are worthwhile to train for climbing...  I think you'll find just about every type of movement any weightlifter would train in the list.
-Finger Strength
-Upper Body Pull Strength
-Lower Body Posterior Chain Dominant
    -  subcategory of the one above, Calf strength, Tibialis Strength (Think Toehooks), and Foot strength are also very important for us climbers.
-Lower Body Quad Dominant
-Upper Body Push Strength
-"Core" Strength

Based on that philosophy, I have developed a Upper body / FB plan that takes about an hour and consists of 10 total exercises, and a lower body/core plan that takes about an hour and has 11 total exercises.  I do these on consecutive days, then take a rest day.  This is in addition to climbing and running. 

Keep in mind that it takes time to adapt to a certain workload.  I am just winding down a fall running race series, so my runnig will be much less intense, and my lifting will increase in intensity while my climbing will stay at the same intensity. 

mrjonathanr

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#5 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 12, 2012, 12:50:46 pm
Hi Sasquatch based on your own experience how much value do you think non climbing-specific exercises like posterior chain/clean+jerk have? thanks. Jon

Sasquatch

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#6 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 12, 2012, 04:46:23 pm
It depends on what you're training for, what part of the season you're in, your current level of overall strength and athleticism, etc.

If you look at the deadlifting thread, you'll see some people will be able to deadlift almost 2xBW their first time trying.  Others will be closer to 1xBW.  If you're in the latter group, it'll be a much bigger difference. 

TobyD

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#7 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 12, 2012, 10:16:48 pm
I've been doing pyramids roughly as per the article above on lat pull downs, bicep curls, lat rows, shoulder press basically trying to target one of my (many) prominent weaknesses of shoulder stability on  far out gaston moves or lock offs. I'll let you know in about a month if it does any good. I would do far more deadlifts etc, but can't really weight bear on my right foot for a few more weeks - hence seated isolation exercises. 

mark s

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#8 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 14, 2012, 08:43:34 pm
i will never do weights as a way of climbing harder,i did weights and climbed shite,ive stopped weights and im improving every session.
suppose it may work for some but the extra weight is a hindrance.

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#9 Re: Weight training for climbing
October 14, 2012, 08:56:27 pm
i will never do weights as a way of climbing harder

I feel like I should do some weights at my age (51) for postural/rehabilative/staving off osteoporosis reasons. My dad is virtually crippled with osteoporosis of the spine and I don't want to go the same way. I don't kid myself that it would be directly relevant to climbing.

But my employer is closing the company gym - which only had very limited free weights and which tbh I only went to very sporadically anyway since I resumed climbing - to save costs. And I'm not sufficiently motivated at this point to spend the time & money for a gym membership. Thinking of buying a kettlebell, but not sure if that would be heavy enough to really make much difference to anything.

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#10 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 14, 2012, 09:16:34 pm
i will never do weights as a way of climbing harder,i did weights and climbed shite,ive stopped weights and im improving every session.
suppose it may work for some but the extra weight is a hindrance.

That will depend on if you gain weight from the weight training, vs. maintain weight and get stronger. 

TobyD

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#11 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 14, 2012, 10:55:19 pm
i will never do weights as a way of climbing harder,i did weights and climbed shite,ive stopped weights and im improving every session.
suppose it may work for some but the extra weight is a hindrance.

Personally it is only really through lack of options. But I find it bloody hard to put muscle on with a lot of effort and protein supplements, so i suspect that I am not in too much danger of much weight gain. I also cannot do 10 pull ups, lock off on a bar with either arm, or anything more than 1-3-4 on a campus board. Basic strength is something i need! (I know this is better gained more specifically, but not with a bloody great boot strapped to your right leg)

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#12 Re: Weight training for climbing
October 15, 2012, 11:43:56 am
i will never do weights as a way of climbing harder

I feel like I should do some weights at my age (51) for postural/rehabilative/staving off osteoporosis reasons. My dad is virtually crippled with osteoporosis of the spine and I don't want to go the same way. I don't kid myself that it would be directly relevant to climbing.

But my employer is closing the company gym - which only had very limited free weights and which tbh I only went to very sporadically anyway since I resumed climbing - to save costs. And I'm not sufficiently motivated at this point to spend the time & money for a gym membership. Thinking of buying a kettlebell, but not sure if that would be heavy enough to really make much difference to anything.

The point about needing to be being heavy enough to make a difference is important I think.  Research on exercise and bone density supports common sense and shows the extra exercise has to be markedly harder than everyday activities to make a difference.

You probably know this but the effect of exercise seems to be mainly via mechanical stress rather than hormonal stimulation: doing arm exercises wont help the lower spine much, you need to stress the relevant bits.  Both heavy resistance training and 'high-impact' exercise seem to help.  Falling off regularly whilst bouldering probably does a very good job for the latter.  For the lumbar spine I'd be thinking about dead-lifting or similar. 

Other than your father's history (and I'd share your feeling if my Dad had suffered similarly) do you have any other risk factors that you know about?  Stopping smoking and moderating alcohol consumption are strongly recommended.  A DXA scan is pretty cheap and is commonly offered on a 'walk in' basis by private healthcare providers.  I am possibly straying from my brief here, go and talk with someone that knows the field properly. 

Falling Down

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#13 Re: Weight trainng for climbing
October 15, 2012, 01:16:40 pm
Swinging a 25kg Kettlebell around is pretty demanding.

Muenchener

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#14 Re: Weight training for climbing
October 15, 2012, 04:05:38 pm
You probably know this but the effect of exercise seems to be mainly via mechanical stress rather than hormonal stimulation: doing arm exercises wont help the lower spine much, you need to stress the relevant bits.  Both heavy resistance training and 'high-impact' exercise seem to help.  Falling off regularly whilst bouldering probably does a very good job for the latter.  For the lumbar spine I'd be thinking about dead-lifting or similar. 

And there was I thinking my habit of downclimbing at the bouldering wall was not just being a pussy but also prudently avoiding unnecessary impact on my aging joints. Better start jumping off more.

Would definitely like to do some deadlifting at some point in the not too distant future, but weights gym membership isn't a high priority right now.

Quote
Other than your father's history (and I'd share your feeling if my Dad had suffered similarly) do you have any other risk factors that you know about? 

Afaik my Dad's issues are lifestlye related and not genetic: he smokes heavily and hasn't exercised to any significant degree for decades. I don't smoke, drink very moderately and have been active all my adult life. My Dad's history just makes me all the more motivated to keep it that way.

 

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