[Sasquatch]

Has anyone tried to test maximal hang duration on an edge?

In June prior to MAW hangs 42sec on 18mm edge

Yesterday - 56sec on same 18mm edge

But with the caveat that I have dropped about 6-7lbs in weight between that time.(3kg or so).

[slackline]

Was that consistently 42/56 seconds at each time point?  If not , and they are means, what was/is the standard deviation around each? (and ideally the number of times you tried so that the standard error of the mean can be calculated)

 

[Sasquatch]

Was that consistently 42/56 seconds at each time point?  If not , and they are means, what was/is the standard deviation around each? (and ideally the number of times you tried so that the standard error of the mean can be calculated)

 

n=1 

Yesterday's was after doing my MED hangs.  Then I did two progressions(1x20 second, and 1x30 second), and then  just 1 time for as long as I could stay on....

[Nibile]

Thanks beast. Good idead doing some progeessions into it.
Besides, which info could one get from maximum duration hangs, that are useful for training and climbing?

[Sasquatch]

Thanks beast. Good idead doing some progeessions into it.
Besides, which info could one get from maximum duration hangs, that are useful for training and climbing?

No idea, but as a way to measure potential progress - I can hang on longer than I could before, which seems like it should be helpful in climbing. 

[ghisino]

Thanks beast. Good idead doing some progeessions into it.
Besides, which info could one get from maximum duration hangs, that are useful for training and climbing?

http://thomas-ferry.fr/8-3-l-isom%C3%A9trie-totale/

if i got what this guy says right, the main supercompensation effect is that you'll be able to hang longer and longer on comparable holds.

not surprisingly he says it's useful for lead competition climbers.

maybe interesting as well if you are specifically training to flash boulder problems  ?

[Sasquatch]

Resurecting this as I've got additional feedback, and also found a reference to a cleaner description of Eva's workout plan. 

Since my last post in August I've done 1 additional MAW set followed by 6 weeks of repeaters, followed by 2 more MAW sets(almost done with the second) with at least 1 week off between each cycle.

The summer results:

First 4-week cycle started off adding 40% of BW and ended adding 52% of BW, so a little bit less from that perspective.  I did lose weight during this period, so based on total hanging weight, I saw 9% total gain during the first cycle, and a 7% gain during the second cycle (16% as compared to initial hanging weight). (most of the weight was lost during the second cycle)

Max Weight Cycle 1 - 9% total gain 18 mm edge
Max Weight Cycle 2 - 7% total gain 18mm edge
Minimum Edge Depth Cycle
Max Weight Cycle 3 - 6% total gain 15mm edge
Repeater
Max Weight Cycle 4 - 5% total gain 14mm edge (bm2k lower edge)
Max Weight Cycle 5 - 7% total gain 14mm edge (with 3 workouts left to go)

At this point, I am still seeing improvements, so I can only surmise that they are not only nuerological gains.   I still feel like they are still helping my climbing. 

Lessons I've learned:
I have a much better session if I do some lower body work during the "rest" period. This is what I did the first and 5th cycle.   It also seems to generate greater training effects.

After a short adaptation period, the strength transferred over to the different grips on the repeaters.  I had done repeaters in April, and was much stronger in the fall on all grips.

Here's the link I found with the better description of her plan:
http://www.climbingstrong.com/2012/10/27/170/

I am obviously not following her "plan".

[shark]

Nice one Sasquatch. Really useful.

Here's the link I found with the better description of her plan:
http://www.climbingstrong.com/2012/10/27/170/
I am obviously not following her "plan".

Good link. I'm not following her plan either. Maybe a good job as I'd struggle to fit in 5 sessions a week when the required rest between sessions is 48-72 hours.  Maybe I need to MTFU and train at 110%..or more

[Doylo]

I don't understand any of the jargon bit can someone tell me if this shit works or what?

[shark]

I don't understand any of the jargon bit can someone tell me if this shit works or what?

I can hang the same hold for the same length of time with over 20kgs more attached to my harness than 6/7 months ago

[Doylo]

I'm gonna give it a go. Do you feel much stronger on the stone Shark?

[shark]

I'm gonna give it a go. Do you feel much stronger on the stone Shark?

Yes

[iain]

That's impressive gains for both of you.

I can't find it with a quick look but I remember that Lopez alternated good hold with added weight and very small edges, are you both staying with the weighted hangs on a good edge?

- Scratch that, just found Shark's post

[shark]

That's impressive gains for both of you.

I can't find it with a quick look but I remember that Lopez alternated good hold with added weight and very small edges, are you both staying with the weighted hangs on a good edge?

- Scratch that, just found Shark's post

I have blogged on this. It should appear in the blog pile within 24hours or you can go to it now: http://27crags.com/climbers/shark/blog

[Three Nine]

That's all very well but Doyle's fingerboard set up in his toilet doorway wont allow him to attach any weights (you have to pull on kneeling), you didn't think of that did you Simon?!

[Doylo]

That's all very well but Doyle's fingerboard set up in his toilet doorway wont allow him to attach any weights (you have to pull on kneeling), you didn't think of that did you Simon?!

Ahem..

[Sasquatch]

I fully agree with Shark's statement "It feels like cheating". 

DISCLAIMER: A big caveat for those reading(not you doylo) is that both Shark and I have been climbing for a very long time(17+ years for me) and have put in the miles to refine technique.  As such, focusing directly on strength is addressing a weakness.  I would strongly suggest that those in their first 5 years of climbing focus on climbing more so they learn the movement aspect better before trying to maximize strength. 

[Three Nine]

Fuckin' hell Chris that's got three rungs on it no less. High tec!

[Doylo]

I fully agree with Shrak's statement "It feels like cheating". 

DISCLAIMER: A big caveat for those reading(not you doylo) is that both Shark and I have been climbing for a very long time(17+ years for me) and have put in the miles to refine technique.  As such, focusing directly on strength is addressing a weakness.  I would strongly suggest that those in their first 5 years of climbing focus on climbing more so they learn the movement aspect better before trying to maximize strength.

Agree. I've spent 16 years climbing outside without much STRUCTURED training so its the opposite for me.

Fuckin' hell Chris that's got three rungs on it no less. High tec!

I know, whats going on?! The middle ones smaller too !!

[Sasquatch]

I would guess you were in a similar position to Shark and I, where you've probably been relatively plateaued for quite a while as well.  You'll make progress on individual routes, and very slowly creep up the grades, but nothing major.  This really changed for me after doing this targeted FB. 

Prior to this summer I had done less than 10 total v10 or harder problems in my life.  This summer I did 12 problems v10 or harder, including two projects I had been working for 12 years.

[Doylo]

I would guess you were in a similar position to Shark and I, where you've probably been relatively plateaued for quite a while as well.  You'll make progress on individual routes, and very slowly creep up the grades, but nothing major.  This really changed for me after doing this targeted FB. 

Prior to this summer I had done less than 10 total v10 or harder problems in my life.  This summer I did 12 problems v10 or harder, including two projects I had been working for 12 years.

Quality.  I think i'm in a good position to start training properly, in the last year and a half i have improved and my base level is much better these days.  I'm better on rock and climbing harder stuff quicker so i'm interested to see how much i can improve basic strength.

[iain]

I have blogged on this. It should appear in the blog pile within 24hours or you can go to it now: http://27crags.com/climbers/shark/blog

Thank you.

Sasquatch, are you going to failure too or have you stuck with 10 of what you can hang for 13?

[Sasquatch]

Not to failure is the goal, but I do sometimes end up at failure. 

So my method has been:
Warm-up - 10min standardized warm up In other words, I do this the exact same every time.
Progressive set - 3x10sec hangs w/3 min rest at 50% of the target added weight, 75% and 90%.  i.e. if your goal wtd hang is 50lbs, then to a 10sec hang with 25lbs, a 10sec hang with 37.5lbs, and a 10sec hang with 45lbs.
Main Set 3 or 5 x 10sec hangs with 3 min rest. 
Cool Down Varies

My first set with a given weight I try for three hangs.  If successful, then my next workout I do 5 hangs.  If successful on all 5, then I add 3-5lbs (1.5-2.2kgs roughly) and try for 3 hangs.  This repeats adding weight when successful.

I would say that I have finished 90% of the workouts progressing in this way.  Every so often, I'll fail in a workout in which case I'll repeat the workout until successful.  So far I haven't been stuck for more than 2 sessions at the same workout. 

I've found that if you're doing them with relatively low weight, it's very hard to measure progress accurately as small changes (clothing,food, bowel movements) have a higher proportional effect(unless you weight yourself at the time of workout and always correct for it). 

This is pure speculation, but it seems to me that I get the best return on the training if I'm adding between 25-50% of BW.  Less than 50, and skin becomes more of an issue.  Greater than 100 and total pull strength becomes more of an issue.  As I'm trying to train fingers, and not pull strength, when I start feeling like pull strength is limiting me, I drop to a smaller hold and reduce the weight.

[iain]

That's really helpful, thank you.

[Doylo]

I've started off with 25kg on a 15mm edge