[Monolith]

Please forgive me for being a total idiot. I've looked through the thread, this has all passed me by and I can't quite work out if I'm navigating her blog pages correctly to find the training plan/s. I did, however, read an interesting article on negatives and the questionable nature as to how much they can improve locking ability.

Due to get a new incarnation of a fingerboard this week so some new approaches would be interesting to look at if anybody can link me up?

[tomtom]

Like Mono, I read this and dont know where to start...

Does someone fancy writing a page or so summarising it and maybe with a few links for the Wiki?

[shark]

I'll have a bash  unless Sasquatch has time and wants to do it.

[tomtom]

Nice one

[Sasquatch]

I'll have a bash  unless Sasquatch has time and wants to do it.

I'd be happy too, although from the link posted last week, I'm not sure we're actually doing Mrs. Lopez' plan.  Does anyone have access to the reference guide that comes with her board?

At this stage, I would think a wiki page for max finger training with both this protocol and a statement regarding one-armed vs. other protocols would not go amiss.

[Sasquatch]

Thanks Shark !!

OK, so as near as I can tell we've done just about exactly as she recommends(at least I have), so I'm good with sticking with the "Lopez protocol" name for her workout structure, and add a few paragraphs detailing the max strength concepts. 

I'll work on writing a detailed explanation tomorrow.

[Luke Owens]

Thanks guys, it will be good to have a reference point.

[Monolith]

Cheers for looking at the wiki idea guys. I'm sure it will be well received.

[slackline]

Cheers for looking at the wiki idea guys. I'm sure it will be well received.

But probably forgotten about (I think the Wiki is a great, growing resource but massively under used as too few people know or remember its there).

[Sasquatch]

So apparently I can't edit the wiki at work(blocked).  Can someone dump this in the training wiki for me under the part about repeaters?

Max Hangs:
Maximum hang training is pretty much as simple as it sounds.  Warm-up, then do FB hangs that are at your maximum with enough rest between hangs for full recovery.  Many different version of this have been done, and the key is to create a structured, repeatable and measurable program. One such structured protocol for this was espoused by Mrs. Eva Lopez and been dubbed the Lopez Protocol.

Lopez Protocol:

Cobbled together from various posts on her blog, the following protocol seems to be what she espouses.

Pre-requisites:
1.   You've been climbing for more than 2 years
2.   You can hang an 18mm edge for at least 35 seconds

If you meet these pre-requisites, then the next step is to test how much weight you can add to reach a maximum hang time of 13 seconds on a 14-20mm edge (choose based on your ability).

The workout:
Warm-up 10-15min
•   Warm up Moving the joints of upper body, shoulders, elbows, neck and fingers;
•   Following with 2-3 easy traverses for 2 to 5 minutes
•   Followed by 2-3 boulder problems with increasing difficulty; or several progressive sets on easy holds of the hangboard if we are at home

Progressive sets: 10-15min
•   Hang 10 sec with 40-50% of the total added weight. 3-4 min rest.
•   Hang 10 sec with 80% of the total added weight. 3-4 min rest.
•   Hang 10 sec with 90% of the total added weight. 3-4 min rest.

Main Workout: 10-20min
•   Hang 10 sec with max weight. 3-4 min rest.
•   Repeat 2-4 more times.

That’s all – This workout takes in general 30-45 minutes total from start to finish.

The day before is always a rest day for fingers and pulling muscles.  It is OK to climb or train other aspects than max finger strength later that day, or the next day. 

[r-man]

Done. Good stuff.

http://ukbouldering.com/wiki/index.php/Training_:_The_Science#Maximum_Hangs_-_The_Lopez_Protocol

[tomtom]

Good effort Sasq.

[Luke Owens]

Cheers, nice one Sasquatch!

Is it worth adding a bit about when to add more weight? Such as once 5 main sets can be completed up the weight by "X" amount and aim for 3 main sets next session.

[Sasquatch]

Cheers, nice one Sasquatch!

Is it worth adding a bit about when to add more weight? Such as once 5 main sets can be completed up the weight by "X" amount and aim for 3 main sets next session.

Probably worth introducing the idea, but that's just what I've been doing, not what she recommends.  Her plan says to set the weight for each session based on how you're performing during that session. 

I didn't like that concept as if I was not mentally up for it, I would just take the lower weight and not dig as deep as I should have been.  before my main sets I weight myself and all of my add weight to make sure I am at the right total hang weight, and then mentally, I know there is no excuse for failure.....  It's really helped. 

[Luke Owens]

Probably worth introducing the idea, but that's just what I've been doing, not what she recommends.  Her plan says to set the weight for each session based on how you're performing during that session. 

I didn't like that concept as if I was not mentally up for it, I would just take the lower weight and not dig as deep as I should have been.  before my main sets I weight myself and all of my add weight to make sure I am at the right total hang weight, and then mentally, I know there is no excuse for failure.....  It's really helped.

Yeah, that sounds like the best way. I like to plan - I know if I was setting the weight based on how I feel I wouldn't try as hard.

Here's how i'm getting on so far:

Date - 16/01/13
Edge Size - 30mm
Body Weight - 68kg
Added Weight - 10kg
Total Weight - 78kg
% of Body Weight Added - 14.71%
Main Sets - 5 x 10 secs
Rest Time - 3 Minutes

Date - 24/01/13
Edge Size - 30mm
Body Weight - 68.9kg
Added Weight - 11.5kg
Total Weight - 80.4kg
% of Body Weight Added - 16.69%
Main Sets - 3 x 10 secs
Rest Time - 3 - 4 Minutes

Think I could probably get up to 5 set's next session, might fail though.

What are you guys doing if you fail on a set?

Say I go for 5 sets next time and fail on the 4th, should I just stop and try again next session or drop the weight a little and complete 5 sets? Not sure on the benefits, if any, of the latter. . .

[shark]

What are you guys doing if you fail on a set?

If I failed on the first hang I would try warming up a bit more. If I was OK on the first hang but failed on the second hang below 5 seconds I would take a long (10 minute) rest and try again. It may be that I had cocked up the warmup, was not sufficiently psyched or not brushed the hold or chalked up adequately. If the hang after the long rest is below 5 secs I would probably sack the session off. If I had a couple of sessions like that I would probably take a week off from deadhanging. This is all assuming that you've had a rest day prior to each deadhang session.

[Richie Crouch]

Think I should have started with a heavier weight or smaller edge. Banged on 5kg from last session but could still do 5 sets of 10+ seconds in a half crimp. Reckon those moon fingerboard bottom pockets (number 5 on their training pics) are closer to 20mm than 18mm? I'm pretty shit at guessing. Maybe starting over on the bottom bm2k crimp with 20kg would work better as the bottom one on the bm1k feels similar to what I am using on the moon fingerboard, after putting one up downstairs.

[rodma]

Reckon those moon fingerboard bottom pockets (number 5 on their training pics) are closer to 20mm than 18mm? I'm pretty shit at guessing.

pop yer wee man in and if it can reach the back flaccid, it'll be 18mm 

[Richie Crouch]

pop yer wee man in and if it can reach the back flaccid, it'll be 18mm 

If I'm lucky!

[jwi]

This table from López course material might be of some help; for climbers having an advanced level she also recommends shorter hangs (5s hangs with weight/size of edge where climber can be suspended for 6-8s).

deadhangs, open crimp		very basic	basic	intermediate	advanced
max weight supported for 5s on a 15 mm edge	male	<20kg	25-40kg	42-55kg	>60kg
"	female	<10kg	12-25kg	25-32kg	>35kg
smallest edge that can be hung for 10s		>18mm	12-18mm	8-10mm	<7mm
max duration on 20 mm edge		<25s	30-40s	50-60s	>80s

[shark]

This table from López course material might be of some help;

Thanks jwi. Some good targets to aim for.   

Few questions:

What course was this? and any more titbits ?
Is an open crimp the same as a drag?

[jwi]

Sorry, should be "half-crimp" of course, my bad.

It is from what looks like a collection of power-point slides: “Entrenamiento de fuerza y Resistencia”, or something like that.  Lots of interesting tidbits.  (I only glanced at the material and my Spanish is not so hot)

[slackline]

Got a link to the slides, will add it to the Wiki if so.

[jwi]

I benchmarked myself (~71-73 kg), and was mostly of intermediate level.  Max added weight was by far my worst “event”.

15 mm (slightly rounded) edge, 5s : approx 40 kg (a bit unclear how much since my scales just broke and I've only plates up to 28.5 kg)
8.5 mm (slightly rounded)  edge, 10s.
20 mm (slightly rounded) edge, 63s, but dropped down to a drag the last 8 s.

[highrepute]

Those weights must relate to a specific body weight, otherwise they'd be suggesting that women were only half as strong as men.

They'd be more useful if they were relative.

Would someone like to hazard a guess a to the bod weight they relate to?