[rich d]

As a proper punter I'm really struggling to start one arm deadhanging holds (even jugs) that I can easily hang two armed, do repeaters on. Should I be trying to stay front on, or is it ok to rotate?
I find no real problem with using less fingers with one hand and/or worse holds, but as soon as it goes down to one arm I don't have a chance.
All advice kindly listened to

[Three Nine]

Fewer fingers. I think rotating is unavoidable. A good place to start if you have a beastmaker is to take one of the big side slots and hang it with the wrong hand (eg. left slot with right hand). This means you can use your thumb on the outside which really helps. Also, try not just to hang. Try to one-arm it (even if totally unrealistic) as you engage with it better. Aim at touching the ceiling (getting as close as possible even if its miles off) with the other hand. Progress will of course be slow. Try doing a few one-armed hangs as part of your normal routine and aim to make progress over many sessions.

[shark]

A key issue here is strength in the shoulders. Some find they can magically do one arm deadhangs when engaging the shoulder as if starting a pull-up. If that technique trick doesn't work then you need to progressively train your shoulder strength which was well described by Sasquatch recently.

2: Often times the inability to hang one armed is a shoulder girdle strength issue which can be trained.  especially if you can't hang a jug.....

What would you do (or have you done) to train this?

The best I've found is to do 1-arm assisted hangs.  I use a pully and do 1-arm hangs on decent holds, but try to stay square to the board.  At first I was doing it off a bar while hanging off 1-arm trying to slowly and in control turn my body each way(think twisting in the wind )

[rich d]

Cheers pulling not hanging and not trying to stay straight on got me a few micro seconds.

[Richie Crouch]

I had similar problems maybe a year or so ago and shark put me on the right track.

I warm up with some easy to mid range bouldering then by doing pull ups and 2 arm French pull ups.

When you go for the 1 arm hang start on the big central slot on bm2k and face on. Work on setting yourself underneath the board face on and then slightly bend the arm when pulling on and reach for an imaginary higher hold with the opposite arm. It seems to encourage the start of a 1 armer and allows hanging a little longer. If you start to rotate, try and use a finger on the free arm to put you back in balance. It helped the transition from big holds to the outer eyes on the bm2k. I agree with the above about shoulder stability being a big factor.

apologies for the slight tangent...

It would be interesting to see if others find the bottom middle slot very painful on the skin to 1 arm hang as it squeezes skin on the first joint a lot? I find it easier to hang this dropping the pinkie finger than with all 4 and the small 3 finger slot on the top is better again even though it is less deep due to it being more comfortable?

Back on topic rich...

One thing which may help, could be assistance from the free arm using slings/pulleys..etc I just purchased a fishing scale for a couple quid which can measure up to 20kg. I reckon having this hung on a sling to th side of the fingerboard will let you measure how much assistance you get from the free arm when trying to progress hangs if moving down to smaller edges and help focus to pull harder to reduce the weight on the scales.

[shark]

One thing which may help, could be assistance from the free arm using slings/pulleys..etc I just purchased a fishing scale for a couple quid which can measure up to 20kg. I reckon having this hung on a sling to th side of the fingerboard will let you measure how much assistance you get from the free arm when trying to progress hangs if moving down to smaller edges and help focus to pull harder to reduce the weight on the scales.

I think the theory is good with fish scales but the needle wobbles too much. Probably OK for benchmarking but less useful for training. I ditched it as I found a pulley with free weights and an etrier works loads better.

No fish puns   

[Nibile]

It would be interesting to see if others find the bottom middle slot very painful on the skin to 1 arm hang as it squeezes skin on the first joint a lot?

I used to, and I always skipped it, then I made a small wooden rung that I put in the back of the slot, making less deep. Now I can use it without skin or pain issues.

[rich d]

I now feel that I'm cheating by rotating too much. Reckon it's a shoulder girdle issue, as in I struggle on jugs. I'll get a sling out and try to keep front on, as well as initiating a pull up. Thanks for all the input guys.

[Nick S]

I agree, I feel like rotating too much (ie. until your hips and shoulders are perpendicular to the board) is a red herring. Like you, I was really struggling to one arm hang even the big holds, trying to twist in. Twisting feels like it is going to help the situation, but I have come to the conclusion, doesn't so much.

I fairly recently switched to the approved technique of being more front on and reaching through with the other arm (ie. going for an imaginary hold, like you are about to do a one armer - even though I am so far away from a one armer it's pitiable) and that makes a real difference - it feels a much stronger position for holding body weight.

Also having tried various methods for taking off weight - standing on a bathroom scale, fish/luggage scale, and finally pulley with counterweight - the pulley with counterweight is, for me, without doubt the most effective/least faffy for training as opposed to benchmarking. I thought the luggage scale would save some cash - in retrospect it was a false economy, I should have spent a few quid more and got the right tool for the job in the first place.

[galpinos]

Right, for those of use using a counterweight/pulley......

Do you use a handle on the pulley and pull with your other arm? This seems sensible but then you don't the benefit of the "reach up with your other arm as if reaching for a hold" technique?

Wear a harness and clip it to that?

[shark]

Right, for those of use using a counterweight/pulley......

Do you use a handle on the pulley and pull with your other arm? This seems sensible but then you don't the benefit of the "reach up with your other arm as if reaching for a hold" technique?

Wear a harness and clip it to that?

I stand in an etrier/foot sling which works best in my experience. Clipping directly to the harness is more awkward and tends to drag the rope crosswise on the pulley which creates more variable resistance.

[John Gillott]

I like the foot sling idea. But, what is the advantage of using assistance compared with using a big enough hold such that assistance isn't needed, then reducing the hold size as one improves? If the issue is that even jugs aren't big enough then wouldn't it be better to strengthen the shoulders and upper arms first? If they're failing rather than the fingers, then the exercise isn't really hitting the right thing is it?

On the general point about ways of engaging the shoulder and the arm in general, I find that doing a mini campus move into the hold I'm hanging off / trying to hang off, helps in this. So: two hands on, go up or drop down into the hold with one hand, then release the other hand.

[shark]

But, what is the advantage of using assistance compared with using a big enough hold such that assistance isn't needed, then reducing the hold size as one improves? If the issue is that even jugs aren't big enough then wouldn't it be better to strengthen the shoulders and upper arms first? If they're failing rather than the fingers, then the exercise isn't really hitting the right thing is it?

The shoulder girdle strength is a bit of an enigma (possibly neuro?) so Im not sure what alternative exercises are suitable other than hanging one arm on a hold that is either big enough or you cheat somehow. I agree that this should be complemented with two handed deadhangs (unless you are already strong on one handed work).

As seperate point re failing in exercises that isnt always the way to go in gaining strength. I'm experimenting with Lopez's two handed weighted hangs where the recommendation is that you do 3 reps (with 3 mins rest between reps) with resistance at a level that you hang for 10secs at a level where you expect to fail at 13 secs.   

[cheque]

Useful advice on this thread. 

How have you all set up your pulleys?

[sjw]

Handle works a treat for me. Then you have the option of only engaging the pulley if/when you need it, as opposed to the harness method.

[Probes]

Ive not totally read all of above so i might be repeating something, I used to and still do a rotating one arm hang off a bar. Ie, hang and very slowly turn yourself one way and the other maybe up to 180deg. When i started doing them i used a single finger of the other hand to help guide/control the turn. Even just pressing the finger against a wall of the side of the bar seemed to help massivly and made the hang appear mush easier, it also seemed to help stabilise my shoulders when they are fully open.. of course.

[r-man]

I now feel that I'm cheating by rotating too much. Reckon it's a shoulder girdle issue, as in I struggle on jugs.

Have you tried doing these hangs on a pull up bar, rather than a hold? If it's the lock off strength you are struggling with, then try working it in isolation, ie. without having to pull hard on your fingers.

I used to have abysmal lock off strength, but worked it on a pull up bar doing hangs of hangs of 5sec on, 5sec off at: 90, locked, slightly bent - then repeat. Lock off strength quickly improved (a few weeks) and I increased hang time to 10 sec on, 5 sec off. Careful though - use assistance to start, as this can knacker your elbows if you aren't ready for it.

[Nick S]

Do you use a handle on the pulley and pull with your other arm? This seems sensible but then you don't the benefit of the "reach up with your other arm as if reaching for a hold" technique?

Wear a harness and clip it to that?

Knot in the rope, but yes essentially the handle method.

My set up is I have a pull up bar in the doorframe below the fingerboard and a pulley attached to that.

The lack of reaching up with the other arm voodoo doesn't seem to be an issue or perhaps the arm holding the counterweight is serving the same function.

Harness is a whole world of faff.

[John Gillott]

I wasn't advocating training to failure as such, more pondering whether it was necessary to make sure that in so far as anything was going to fail, it was the fingers rather than the shoulder - after all if you can't do a one arm lock with a slightly bent arm on a bar you're going to struggle to stress the fingers for any length of time with a one arm hang on a small hold.

But having said that, I have usually gone for short duration to near failure or failure, in the perhaps naive expectation that it must be a good idea if he's recommending it:

http://www.moonclimbing.com/blog/school/fingerboard-training-plan/

Outdated?

[rich d]

I now feel that I'm cheating by rotating too much. Reckon it's a shoulder girdle issue, as in I struggle on jugs.

Have you tried doing these hangs on a pull up bar, rather than a hold? If it's the lock off strength you are struggling with, then try working it in isolation, ie. without having to pull hard on your fingers.

I used to have abysmal lock off strength, but worked it on a pull up bar doing hangs of hangs of 5sec on, 5sec off at: 90, locked, slightly bent - then repeat. Lock off strength quickly improved (a few weeks) and I increased hang time to 10 sec on, 5 sec off. Careful though - use assistance to start, as this can knacker your elbows if you aren't ready for it.

just tried it's mainly lock off I think thanks for all the ideas guys. Lots for me to hurt my elbows on through the summer.

[r-man]

I now feel that I'm cheating by rotating too much. Reckon it's a shoulder girdle issue, as in I struggle on jugs.

Have you tried doing these hangs on a pull up bar, rather than a hold? If it's the lock off strength you are struggling with, then try working it in isolation, ie. without having to pull hard on your fingers.

I used to have abysmal lock off strength, but worked it on a pull up bar doing hangs of hangs of 5sec on, 5sec off at: 90, locked, slightly bent - then repeat. Lock off strength quickly improved (a few weeks) and I increased hang time to 10 sec on, 5 sec off. Careful though - use assistance to start, as this can knacker your elbows if you aren't ready for it.

just tried it's mainly lock off I think thanks for all the ideas guys. Lots for me to hurt my elbows on through the summer.

Did you find these fairly tricky then? From trying this with others it seems it's not uncommon to have poor one arm lock off ability but compensate with relatively strong fingers. After training this a bit I found some problems outdoors just became miles easier.

Next step for me was to progress onto 90 degree hangs open rather than side on, and locked off with palm facing outward. Then eventually transfer to jugs, then smaller holds, then take over the world.

[rich d]

Yep, fairly tricky but not impossible. Felt like it was my lock off going way quicker than my fingers. Definately another area of weakness discovered, to work on. Cheers for the advice

[TobyD]

I have been experimenting with trying to improve one arm pull / lock off ability by doing extemely offset hangs / locks / pull ups on a beastmaker
 EG LH big slot, RH back 2 on thin edge; 3 pull ups, drop, swap hands to RH slot, LH back 2, and repeat.

I have not been doing this for long enough to really tell if it's effective yet, but it seems as though it should work? Anyone else tried anything similar?

I feel that I may be be better going for the basic pull up bar method outlined above, however, since it is really the basic big muscle groups that tend to limit me, rather than small holds.

[John Gillott]

I have been experimenting with trying to improve one arm pull / lock off ability by doing extemely offset hangs / locks / pull ups on a beastmaker
 EG LH big slot, RH back 2 on thin edge; 3 pull ups, drop, swap hands to RH slot, LH back 2, and repeat.

I have not been doing this for long enough to really tell if it's effective yet, but it seems as though it should work? Anyone else tried anything similar?

I feel that I may be be better going for the basic pull up bar method outlined above, however, since it is really the basic big muscle groups that tend to limit me, rather than small holds.

I do exactly that (the pullup version mainly) to develop / maintain upper arm and shoulder strength and I find it quite effective.

[Lopez]

Back on topic...

Quite glad this topic came up as i was thinking of dropping one due to my pitiful one arm performance in comparison with 2 arms.

I tried yesterday the "pretend you are doing a one-armer" approach and got to say i'm quite impressed in how well it worked.

Managed to noticeably increase the time i can hang, and i got down to a new hold in most grip positions. Also got a new PB for a hold that i can now (barely) hang for about a second when before i couldn't even take the weight off my feet. 

Game is on. Fame or phisio beckons