[mark s]

My shoulder has been hurting since July,it had died off a bit until yesterday.I can't lift my arm out to the side at all now.
Has any one needed surgery on a rotator? I was wondering how painful the injury was before surgery so I can get an idea if its a tear or it is detatched.
I'm guessing with it being my left arm driving will be out for a few weeks if I do need surgery.
Cheers

[Carnage]

Shoulder injuries vary alot, what with it being a pretty complicated joint and all that. My torn labrum barely hurt at all most of the time. You need to get an assessment and referral for an MRI to give an indication of the damage done. If you do require surgery, the likelihood is that you'll face at least 4 weeks with it in a sling so you may well not be able to drive.

[SA Chris]

I knackered mine quite badly surfing and it took loads of physio to get it right, but she was adamant that it didn't need surgery, and she was right. Get a decent physio to take a look, exercise should hopefully remedy it, and also figure out the cause of the injury in the first place - bad posture and muscle imbalances are my first guesses? Surgery should be a last resort.

[mark s]

Cheers.I'm going to get in touch with one today.

[thekettle]

I second the recommendation of a referral to a specialist and an MRI scan: over 2 years I saw 2 specialists and 3 physios (all of whom recommended I rest/do more physio to fix things) before the third specialist agreed to do the MRI. MRI found labral tears on both shoulders, now I'm finally pain free and able to climb regularly after surgery to both shoulders. Neither of mine were very painful.

[fuzzface93]

Just a word to the wise, surgery is the LAST option. If you can avoid it, do. It can work wonders but it does come with all the complications and later life pains ect. get it checked out by an osteopath / chiropractor, may need physio therapy. Try and blag as much of these treatments on the NHS as possible.

If you Haven't been to the doctors and declared this injury yet, then take out some health insurance that will cover treatments ect ( stuff the nhs wont do ) because as soon as you go to doctors and tell them about it then its on record and no insurance company will touch you for that sort of thing.

Hope it goes well, i'm just recovering from  rotator cuff problems so know how you feel.

[GCW]

Just a word to the wise, surgery is the LAST option.

This very much depends on what the problem is and what the symptoms are.

[fuzzface93]

Granted, say for  example a situation which called for an emergency tracheotomy ( if you can count that as surgery ) surgery would deffo be first option. and other such situations ( ie. mastectomy for breast cancers ect. )

What I'm trying to say in a waffling and roundabout way, is that in most non life threatening situations surgery should be avoided unless 100%, or thereabouts, necessary.

  ?

[GCW]

So in a young fit person a large cuff tear and SLAP should always be treated non-operatively?  Bollocks.

[fuzzface93]

What you've done there is highlighted a particular situation in which surgery would be preferential, which I have already conceded that many such situations do exist. What i am saying is just that in most cases for most things 'try' and avoid surgery.

Do you not think that given a hypothetical athletic person ( climbs a lot ) who would like to continue such a life style post injury, they would want to think carefully about the best way to heal said injury? Which i would say involves looking at other options before surgery. Mainly because depending  on the type of surgery ect. ( countless variables ) there often are repercussions later down the line. Such as restriction of movement, persistent stiffness, scar tissue build up and the rest.

I am not saying that surgery is necessarily a bad thing, i am merely saying it is more than a good idea just to check what other options are available for any given injury, within any relevant time constraints.

If you find this to be an unreasonable view point, then so be it. We're now miles off topic so lets just leave it lie.

[GCW]

Just a word to the wise, surgery is the LAST option.

I refer you back to your sweeping generalisation that surgery is the LAST option, which contradicts this:

What i am saying is just that in most cases for most things 'try' and avoid surgery.

Nowadays I generally try to avoid giving advice on these posts, as it's impossible to give good advice without the full information.  And thus I avoid saying things like "surgery is the LAST" option.  Mr Sharratt hasn't given us any findings from MRI etc etc, so how you can advise him to avoid surgery, I don't know.  My only issue is making sure he gets correct information with which to make an informed decision.

Moral?  Let sleeping orthopods lie.

Mark- see someone with a shoulder interest, get all the info and their advice and then make a decision with them.

[fuzzface93]

I see no contradiction, only a clarification of intent.

The rest of what you say I agree with whole heartedly, in that I would seek as much professional information as possible.

Also on a sidenote that gritlist link in your signature is awesome... got me scheming like a mad thing on a tick list.

[GCW]

 

Also on a sidenote that gritlist link in your signature is awesome... got me scheming like a mad thing on a tick list.

All credit goes to Readza.

[neilpearsons]

Hi Mark
I had my operation 6 weeks ago, but sent this to Fatdoc who said it might be worth sharing. I never got round to it till now.
Yesterday I saw the consultant and she was very encouraging, saying for the amount of work I had done I'm doing really well - off the painkillers, range of movement is good for 6 weeks post-op and my tissue was good and healthy.
I had a lot of work done so my recovery will be a lengthy one but she was hoping I'd be back up to full strength (ok full weakness) by a year. I'm 47 by the way.
I wasn't in much pain before the op either, but my right arm made terrible clunking noises when I lifted it out to the side. It would hurt after a day's bouldering but not too much at the time. I could do Cherokee Lane and Jerocho Road just before the op and they both have moves with your right arm way above your head.  I just couldn't train hard and hope to get away with it.
Get as much information as you can before you make a decision.
Hope that helps.
CHeers,
Neil


It's now four days since my operation and the first time I've felt like writing anything. I can still only type with one hand but I'm more motivated to do so today. After the op on Tuesday afternoon I felt surprisingly chipper; I wasn't in pain and was pleasantly aware of what was going on around me. The only cause for concern was that I couldn't move or feel my right arm at all. At least it was still attached - I could see it. After briefly starting to run through how I would feel if I could never use my right arm again I decided not to go there, especially as one of my first thoughts was that at least I could still run... is that optimism or pessimism?

I must have been drifting in and out of consciousness as before long two people appeared at my bedside, the surgeon Mr Fischer (I'm assuming the German spelling - why it is I found it reassuring he was German I don't know) and the registrar. Mr Fischer explained my arm was numb due to the nerve anaesthetic he'd given me... as he'd had to do quite a bit more work than expected - four procedures in total, three of which went well and the fourth which was making the best of a bad job. Or that's how I remember it, I was still a bit dopey.

The first thing he fixed was the main injury the MRI scan had showed up, the tears in the Glenoid Labrum (shoulder joint lining) there were two tears and they had to be sutured and anchored to a plastic insert in the bone.

The second thing he did was what we'd discussed before the op, that of bicep tendon reattachment. My friend John Welford had his bicep tendon reattached about 14 months ago and I knew that had gone well - he was pretty much back up to full strength and very pleased with the result, so this wasn't a difficult decision. Unlike John though I hadn't snapped my whilst climbing, it was just another thing compromised by the havoc I'd wreaked on my genetically weak shoulder joint. Mr Fischer cut the tendon from the joint and reattached it to my humerus - what a nice chap.

The third thing that became apparent whilst he was broddling about was a couple of rotator cuff tears. I'd injured my rotator cuff a few years ago and thought I'd got it sorted, but obviously not - the body must do some incredible things to compensate for other bits going wrong. Or maybe the mind's desire to climb outweighs the body's natural defence system. Anyway, good old Mr Fischer kindly stitched the rotator cuff tears whilst he was in there.

The fourth thing he did is the one I'm still unsure of and the one he sounded most doubtful about. He mentioned more damage to some other soft tissue that he couldn't repair. He said he'd drilled some holes in the bone (I don't know which one) which would allow some other material to come through as a second-best replacement. That sounds a bit strange and it might be completely wrong but I'll find out and update later.

Mr Fischer actually referred to my shoulder as 'a bit shitty', which made me laugh. He thought it was congenitally predisposed to all this damage and wasn't necessarily as a result of all my activities - if it were, he said, his surgery would be full of such shoulders, and it wasn't. So it's not my lifetime of living on the cutting edge of British rock climbing I've got to thank for my current incapacity - it's my parents. Actually I'll blame my dad, because my mum is still alive and I don't want to blame her for anything.

[neilpearsons]

It's been 6 months now since my SLAP tear repair and I wondered how anybody else who's had one has progressed. I've been told it will take a year to fully recover. Initially it seemed to get better quite quickly - I was told I had good quality tissue - but has subsequently plateaued.
My shoulder was in pretty poor shape when they opened me up - I had two partial SLAP tears repaired, two rotator cuff tears, my bicep tendon cut and reattached and a micro-fracture of the humerus (where holes were drilled in it to allow new bone to grow over pitted area - I think that's what happens).
I started climbing again after about 3 months although half-heartedly as my shoulder always felt weak at the time and sore afterwards. I've done some very demanding labouring work recently, including 8 hour days of shovelling soil and dismantling dry stone walls. One day I had to stop after a few hours due to the shoulder feeling tweaky rather than just sore. A few days later it felt well enough to do some more labouring and although it hasn't felt so tweaky again it is still sore after doing anything major on it.
I've just returned from a trip to Font where I climbed a couple of 7as that I tried pre-op and didn't do so you could be forgiven for slapping me and telling me to stop moaning. It's just that it feels like progress has stagnated and I wondered if anyone has had a similar experience...

[Ru]

I had two partial SLAP tears repaired, two rotator cuff tears, my bicep tendon cut and reattached and a micro-fracture of the humerus (where holes were drilled in it to allow new bone to grow over pitted area - I think that's what happens).

I'm not a doctor, but you had a lot done there, there's a lot to heal and you're not 21. It sounds like you're doing ok. It was 6 months before my injured shoulder was back up to speed and i was 21 and I didn't need surgery.

[neilpearsons]

Thanks Rupert. In very recent news I've just had a couple of gym sessions with swims afterwards and my shoulder is feeling better than ever. When you say you were 21, did you mean kg? Because you don't look much heavier now. 

[mark s]

glad its starting to get better neil,all that work done its bound to take time.at least you can climb on it.
mine is pretty much ok now,strength in shoulder is lagging a bit but its getting there slowly
it took about 8 months for mine to sort itself out,can very slightly feel it on certain exersises

[duncan]

Neil, I had a SLAP lesion "tidied up" when I was 40.  It took 6 months before I was climbing easy stuff.  You've had far more done by the sound of it and you are climbing harder than I was at the same stage.  The mistake I made was not to continue with my cuff and scapular exercises rigorously for well after I had re-started climbing. I spent a decade climbing at less than full capacity as a result.

[Norton Sharley]

 Neil,

I'm now 4 months (18 weeks) post stage II slap repair.  So far managed easy traversing and Works sessions and some grit bits and pieces but was then laid up with horrific cold for the last 2 weeks.  I too have had some demanding labouring (all the gardening I've not done for 5 years) which seems fine although makes my shoulder ache afterwards - sometimes a general ache, sometimes specific 'tweaks'.  I do have severe arthritis in my shoulder too and am learning to differentiate between the arthritis and the (repaired) tendon injury.

The advise I received from Mr W after his snapped bicep was to take it easy rather than rushing into anything.  I certainly feel like I could pull harder but progressively increasing my efforts will, I hope, be much better in the longer term than jumping straight back on the campus board!   Sounds to me like 7a's in Font is going well. 

I am taking glucosamine and chondroitin supplements which absolutely make my shoulder ache less.  This is perhaps more related to the arthritis than slap tear but may be worth considering.  I say absolutely because I undertook a control test where I stopped taking the supplements between weeks 14 and 16 (because I had a cold and couldn't do battle with Tesco's, small child and cold to get myself to the far end of the store to then read loads of labels to buy some more....).  My shoulder got worse.  I have restarted taking them and the general ache is better, but not entirely eliminated.  Could be worth you considering?

See you at Rubicon when the weather improves and we can compare creaks, cracks and pops!