[Baldy]

I have been struggling with this for a while, and it may have to do with getting a 'pop' out of both arms at various points in time, so please bear that in mind with answers (both pops were over a year/two ago and I feel no pain in my arms from what I would consider to be the main injury).

I never feel like I can go front three on any hold without exploding my forearms.
If I can get the pinky on, then everything feels super solid.
Back three also feels bomber.


Now, when I try it, I feel like the initial popping position is going to be right at the base of the ring finger on both sides.

My question is
- Does this happen to anyone else? (Keith mentioned that he really didn't like front 3 when I spoke to him at TCA one time)
- Is this just due to a relative weakness in my arms that can be dealt with with by some careful training
- Or should I just avoid it altogether and give up pockets as a bad job?

Thanks in advance,

Baldy

[rodma]

get an assessment from a good physio that has experience treating climbers.

[Baldy]

I'd consider it, except the last series of physios (even climbing centric ones) I have seen have been a bit clueless regarding my wrist woes.
I thought I'd ask on here to see if someone could shed some light before I look down that alley.

[rodma]

A physio will be better able to analyse your range of  based amotion than web based advice. I too have had mixed experiences.

I'm sure you'll be able to manage some self-diagnosis.

My tuppenceworth would be to look at the difference in position that your ring finger sits in with and without your pinky on. It is likely that your ring finger is straighter without your pinky on and as such i would explore the possibility that you may need to loosen off the muscles in the forearm that are putting this additional load through your ring finger. I'm sure if you have a good google you'll find a video or two illustrating some forearm massage techniques.

Good luck

[rodma]

sorry, that was typed really badly on a smartphone.

It could easily lso be that your pinky is taking almost all of the load that the ring finger would be, so without it on your ring finger suddenly has to do all the work, in which case you learned to climb around your injury which requires the use of your pinky.

Anyhow, if it is tension, or shortening of the forearm muscles it is essential that you work on loosening them off. If you stretch, without first loosening them off then you will be imposing an even greater load through the ring finger if you do the traditional bending your hand backwards forearm stretch.

If you do go down this route and it is successful, please be aware that looser muscles are likely to make you feel weaker, but at least if your weak and in no discomfort then you can try hard without fear of your pinky slipping off a hold.

Anyway, it might not be that, but the tension/muscle shortening has been the consequence of my ring finger injuries over the years.

[rodma]

Anyway, it might not be that, but the tension/muscle shortening has been the consequence of my ring finger injuries over the years.

probable cause too

[Baldy]

Thanks Rodma,

Trying out some massage now, hopefully I will see some progress in the near future.

[lukeh]

My question is
- Does this happen to anyone else? (Keith mentioned that he really didn't like front 3 when I spoke to him at TCA one time)
- Is this just due to a relative weakness in my arms that can be dealt with with by some careful training
- Or should I just avoid it altogether and give up pockets as a bad job?

My uninformed tuppence worth...

I went from mainly using my front three to mainly my back three after a ring finger tendon pop too. For a while after I experienced the same thing as you, and put it down to underuse - by favouring certain finger combinations they will get stronger than the others. I also found I lost a bit of strength in my index finger, which was perhaps more worrying, but easier to fix.

Being too lazy to properly train I removed the worst of the problem by making note of it in my general climbing and pulling on the weaker combos on better holds to make sure they actually get used, slowly bringing them up to scratch. My ring fingers still comparatively weak, but I think that would only really be solved by targetting it on a fingerboard.

So I'd say that careful targetted training would be the smart move (separating the two finger grips to target the weaker fingershttp://www.beastmaker.co.uk/pages/training), but then again, I've been too lazy to do this myself!

[Baldy]

Maybe I'll just try and focus a lot more on using 3 finger grips in all my warmup climbs.

I think I read that that was a good thing to do anyway.

[tomtom]

Crimping or open hand?

[Baldy]

I pretty much exclusively use open hand.

I only crimp on the very smallest holds (I am very worried about my dodgey pulleys as well)

When I crimp my pinky tends to come up in line with the ring anyway, so it doesn't feel bad.

[TobyD]

My conjecture would be that two of the main reasons many (most?) finger injuries are ring finger:  its length discrepency compared to the pinky - thus in crimp or half crimp it tends to extend more than front two at the DIP joint, so pulleys are stretched more; and secondly poor lateral support from the pinky so you would tend to get more collateral ligament damage when twisting in a pocket, or rolling on an edge.

using vulnerable grip types in a warm up, with a very low (but progressive) load is pretty likely to be a good idea i would have thought, for both recruitment, and injury prevention.

[Omar15]

Sorry for being thick rodma, but would you be able to clarify what you mean by this:

Anyhow, if it is tension, or shortening of the forearm muscles it is essential that you work on loosening them off. If you stretch, without first loosening them off then you will be imposing an even greater load through the ring finger if you do the traditional bending your hand backwards forearm stretch.

[rodma]

If you hurt your hamstring, or bicep, or quad at the attachment point you would l;ook to lengthen the muscle, if it turned out that these muscles were in any way tight. Why would you treat an injury in your fingers any differently. Try and take the load off the injured part to at least give it a chance.

As far as I'm aware the middle two fingers share a certain amount of tendonal activity and it could easily be the case that if you were as tight as a tiger, that your ring finger may not actually be able to straighten when you are using a front three grip, without something having to give way, but what the fuck do i know, that's why Baldy needs to work out what the root cause of his problems are.

I had some issues with my ring finger pulley when training on the slopey 2finger pockets on the beastmaker, until i did a good bit of work to my forearms, then I couldn't hang them at all, but at least i could train in comfort.

[Omar15]

Yeah that makes sense. What are the ways to loosen them? Self massage?

[rodma]

Yeah that makes sense. What are the ways to loosen them? Self massage?

Yeah, have a google, bound to be some videos out there showing self massage for forearms, unless you can endure a confusing description that'll run into thousands of words if i were to attempt it.

[erm, sam]

Just mash them up with the knuckles of the other hand. Find the sore/tight bits and apply pressure/mash them up.

[rodma]

Just mash them up with the knuckles of the other hand. Find the sore/tight bits and apply pressure/mash them up.

There are better/easier/more effective ways than that, but fuck it, why not, and if your other arm gets too tired use a meat tenderiser, or a hammer, or a rolling pin, or a brick 

This video pretty much demonstrates the technique I like, but you do have to take it easy with it. (but not necessarily hitting the exact location you are aiming for)

[Omar15]

that feels awesome. I find on my tweaked side doing the massage hurts and feels a more weird than my non-tweaked arm.

[Baldy]

Nice one!

I was using a fives ball on a desk before ( Duma -  ), but this is much more approachable.

I dont really feel any 'bad' spots, but maybe it'll just help loosen everything up.

I went for a climb today, and did everything in my warm up with 3 fingers.
It felt bad to start, but then I found myself later in the session trying to hold things with 3 finger subconsciously.

So maybe it is just a practice thing?

[biscuit]

Slightly different area but i've just had a physio massage my forearm/elbow area after it giving me grief for nearly 4 months. Instant relief. It's not fixed but feels so much better and the phrase loosened off hits the nail on the head. I've gone from being in pain writing, opening bottles, driving etc etc. to feeling like i could climb again in 2 days.

What i am getting at is that it was so tight in the injured area and i had no idea until she showed me some comparisons with the non injured side. The massaging/loosening off idea is a good one. Now it's loosened i have stretches to do, which fits in with Rodma's suggestion of loosen first, then stretch.