[Paul B]

As the price of rock shoes tipped £100 I did the tight firsted thing and refused to buy any new boots (that'll teach them  ).

This of course means that now I'm left with every single shoe that I own* absolutely wrecked. Despite being wrecked (rand gone, laces snapped, generally filthy, rounded with a 5p sized hole in the end), my blanco's were causing me ridiculous amount of Achilles pain a weekend or so ago at Gogarth so I need something with a less aggressive heel.

I tend to be doing more and more limestone type trad (a destroyed pair of greens will suffice on grit for now) including quite a few longer routes (potential Dolomites trip coming up shortly), however I am wanting to get onto some harder stuff so pure bumbly shoes aren't really an option.

Now, I've resolutely used 5.10 for years but what should I try, Gallileos, something Scarpa based?

* excluding a pair of dragons

[psychomansam]

Galileos if your feet are wide enough

[Gritlad]

vapours?

[Stubbs]

The Galileos sit very high on the achilles, so if the whites have been giving you trouble they may not be for you.  Have you got beef with normal velcroes? 

I've not tried them, but have always thought that the Latana lace up looked like a good all roud traddy type choice; I'm sure some peeps will be able to tell you haw they fare on limestone.

[richieb]

I got a pair of instinct lace ups recently thinking they would be the most obvious replacement for my old magos (other than some new magos).
Didn't turn out that way, for me they are nothing like as stiff and the down turn has flattened out already.
However, they are turning out to be a good trad boot, very comfy and precise.

Not tried vapours but I would have thought they were the obvious middle-high end trad shoe from the current Scarpa range. 

[Paul B]

I guess it depends on which heel they currently have on the velcros?

I tend to favour stiffer shoes.

[youngy]

I tend to wear the Verdes which are half a size up from normal (i.e 8 in Velcros, 8.5 in Verdes) these have worked brilliantly for a year or so, from single pitch right through to 6 pitch mountain routes.

[205Chris]

Have you ruled out LaSportiva? Katanas have always been my shoe of choice for limestone. If the velcros aren't stiff enough the lace ups are a bit stiffer and more down turned. Miuras / Solutions also available.

Plus you can normally pick them up a bit cheaper using this trick

[sidewinder]

If you get on well with 5.10 shoes maybe think about trying the Rogues, fit very similar to the velcros, not as wide as the Galileo's (I don't think) and a less aggressive heel and last and no downturn compared to the velcros.  I bought some for using at the wall as you can get them pretty cheap 50-70 quid and have been surprised that they seem to perform almost as well as my anasazis while being a fair bit more comfortable, the perforated upper is also noticeably airier, not sure that is a good thing?  Only had them a month or so so not sure about long term but have been good so far.

[Drew]

Can't you just sell a lens, and get a few pairs of whatever you want?
Seriously though, I know a few people who favour the Instinct Lace. The Galileo would be worth trying. The heel might be as high, but isn't as aggressive as the blancos, so should be ok.

[mrjonathanr]

Not to be a smart-arse, but next you see a really good deal at the Works get 2 or 3 in your size. Bargain! Add in a really nasty bout of tendonosis (years, not months) and hey presto - you've saved a fortune AND have 3 pairs of shiny boots spare!

Works for me. So to speak. (I think the theory was good but I'll need to recover to test it, sometime around the next Jubilee I expect..)

[John Gillott]

I've got a dodgy left achilles which the elastic tension bands on Anasazis irritate. I find Katanas to be a better fit in that regard for me and once broken in they're a pretty good shoe that is also comfy enough for long multipitch trad. Evolv Bandits also work for me in the same way (they're a bit cheaper as well).

[TobyD]

I tend to be doing more and more limestone type trad (a destroyed pair of greens will suffice on grit for now) including quite a few longer routes (potential Dolomites trip coming up shortly), however I am wanting to get onto some harder stuff so pure bumbly shoes aren't really an option.
Now, I've resolutely used 5.10 for years but what should I try, Gallileos, something Scarpa based?

I favour Galileos for almost everything to be honest. They are pretty much the perfect trad boot: you can get them pretty tight, and being velcros, easily pop them off on stances, yet still actually climb fairly hard moves in them. In fact i've worn them for a few harder sport routes as they are way more comfortable, and a tad stiffer than velcros etc, so you get more support and can et more weight through your feet on shakeouts. I've climbed Indian Creek cracks in them, Yosemite walls, most UK trad stuff, the only thing they don't do well is steep toe pully type climbing, especially pockets; which dragons are pretty much ideal for. So as long as they fit your feet, get some. I think V12 flog em instore for £85 ish?

[Paul B]

Thanks for the input thus far:

Galileos - yes V12, Needlesports etc. have them at what seems like a reasonable rate these days.

Vapour lace - Haven't seen these

Instinct lace - Barrows wears these  , my last pair of Scarpa shoes were the LLE slippers ages ago, I take it the rubber is good etc. ?

Katana Lace - I was eyeing up Stu's pair of these the other night, unfortunately he's spec'd them for climbing on jugs so couldn't really tell me anything useful. 

Verdes - This is what I've got (in a decaying form) for grit, (half size large), they just go too soft too fast, I was almost inclined to buy a tighter pair and hope this helped.

Bandits - The last pair of Evolvs I had were the original predators, the rubber was shocking. Has that changed?

[Grubes]

I had a pair of bandits I liked them at the time. The rubber was shocking and wore away in a couple of months to the point I could put my toe through them. I don't think I will ever go back to wearing evolv shoes

[John Gillott]

Rubber on the current model Bandits seems fine to me.

[nik at work]

I've got some Tenaya lace ups. Can't remember which model. They took a while to bed in and felt a bit clunky to start with (rubber felt quite thick). But now I really like them, and will get another pair. I guess they're kind of like an old 5.10 pink but more lateral stiffness. They also seem really well made (although I can only compare them to 5.10 so this perhaps isn't saying much...). JB has some I think??

[moose]

I really rate Miuras for limestone.  Worn fairly tight they are precise enough for anything - very commonly seen on the feet of Ondra and other Euro-beast.  My current pair are perhaps a half-size bigger than my minimum and were comfortable enough for full days' sport cragging in a hot Turkey.  The laces are very easy to tighten for a bit more feel for those harder pitches / redpoints.

[chummer]

another vote for Muira's and Muira VS's, brilliant and comfy boots (if they fit your feet)

[El Mocho]

I had a pair of bandits I liked them at the time. The rubber was shocking and wore away in a couple of months to the point I could put my toe through them. I don't think I will ever go back to wearing evolv shoes

The original trax (Evolv) rubber was very soft - probably even softer than Stealth (I was still with 5.10 in this era but did get one pair of Talons with the old rubber when I switched) word on the street (ie Matt Birch) said they were really sticky but deformed on small edges and didn't last long - hence some of the above posts. The new rubber is harder than Stealth and in terms of durability probably (I don't really know) similar to most brands.

I use the Banditts for all my trad and longer stuff now, they may well be a little soft for you Paul - I used to climb in pinks (or velcros) in my 5.10 days. If you are after a try of a pair I have plenty in a fairly worn state (I am guessing that as you are also a dwarf you may have similar size feet to me)

I you want something a little stiffer them Sportiva or Scarpa lace ups look good (don't know the names but they look like each other)

Also for Dollies or longer stuff Newtons are great - they take about a year to wear in but last about 5 more. Not the most sensitive though.

[Pitcairn]

I also suggest Miuras.  For me it all depends on the fit and Miuras are perfect for me.  Perhaps not the stickiest rubber but generally they provide an excellent all-round performance.

[Wood FT]

I've got some Tenaya lace ups. Can't remember which model. They took a while to bed in and felt a bit clunky to start with (rubber felt quite thick). But now I really like them, and will get another pair. I guess they're kind of like an old 5.10 pink but more lateral stiffness. They also seem really well made (although I can only compare them to 5.10 so this perhaps isn't saying much...). JB has some I think??

I have a pair of Tenaya Masai and straight out of the box they are a very very good shoe but on the lime trad my feet were starting to ache after a few hours of stoving them into beeston pockets where as my whites felt like mono-points. They don't feel as aggressive at the back of the foot as whites but my achiles felt slightly sore after a full day in them still. I'll be buying them again.

[nik at work]

Them's the badgers. I like 'em. After bedding in they are comfy for me. Better fitting heel than pinks/verdes, not as good as Dragon heel (but then what is??). Might try the other lace ups in the range next time.

[Paul B]

I use the Banditts for all my trad and longer stuff now, they may well be a little soft for you Paul - I used to climb in pinks (or velcros) in my 5.10 days. If you are after a try of a pair I have plenty in a fairly worn state (I am guessing that as you are also a dwarf you may have similar size feet to me)

Cheers Ben, I'm a size 7, 7.5 ish? (maybe I should of done more than just mock your posters at the last boot demo).

Also for Dollies or longer stuff Newtons are great - they take about a year to wear in but last about 5 more. Not the most sensitive though.

We might be off there in a fortnight or so depending on flights/finance although I'm yet to convince Nat about a few of my targets.

[cha1n]

Miura lace.

Instinct Lace is very stiff (as is the Miura VS) and I had mine about a month before deciding that they were too stiff and selling them on. Everyone has different preferences of stiffness that they prefer though.

The Miura lace has 4mm rubber and are supportive on small edges but they really give good feedback. I guess that it may be because they don't have the P3 system as the Velcro.