[cha1n]

Hey, just a few questions about these. I've read some conflicting information in reviews and people's comments on forums so just wondered if a few people can clear this up.

1. How soft/hard is the midsole in comparison to the Dragon?
2. Is the toe rubber soft enough to stretch out (thinking about comfort with bunched toes)?
3. Is the heelcup as deep as the Dragon?
4. Are they slightly wider in the forefoot than the Dragon?
5. How does the rubber compare to Stealth HF?

As you can see, most of my comparisons are being drawn against the Dragon, my current shoe. I love the Dragon, but it does have a few failings in my opinion:

- Lack of toe rubber.
- Slightly narrow in the forefoot (for me).
- Heelcup *slightly* too deep.

Only minor things but if the Talon is just a slightly wider dragon with a shallower heel, then I'm sold! Thanks for any help.

[Nick S]

I've only worn the original talons and not the G2s, so comments refer to that one:

1. midsole I thought was stiffer than the dragon, and it held its stiffness more as it wore in. Great on a board.
2. No, the toe rubber didn't stretch much and that (combined with point 4) was why I had to stop wearing them - the reduced width of toe box and lack of stretch created hot spots on the knuckles of my toes where they pushed up against the rubber toe box, which killed my toes.
3. Heel cup is lower volume than the dragon and is the reason I bought them - probably best fitting heel I have ever had on a shoe. However Evolv have put this ribbed rubber on the heel which really puts me off them.
4. Slightly narrower if anything. Dragons fit me perfectly - Talons bunched my toes a bit too much, see point 2. Perhaps going up a size would have helped, as already noted there was not a lot of stretch.
5. No issues with rubber. Slightly harder/stiffer than Stealth HF if anything but no problems with stickiness. I was mostly using them as board shoes and I tend to think the stickiness of the rubber is much less an important factor than the design - stiffness of sole, shape of toe, amount of power you can put through the toe etc. all of which I thought were pretty good.

[cha1n]

Thanks for the reply Nick.

I'd be interested to know if they felt narrower because of the lack of stretch over the top of the shoe as my dragons have stretched a fair amount over the top to accommodate my very bunched toes. Evolv state that the G2's have thinner rubber over the toes than the original so this may help.

Hmmm, I wouldn't want them much stiff than the dragon but slightly stiffer would be bearable (I like to have feedback through my toes).

Lastly, I share your thoughts about the ribbed heel but I decided that I would sand it smooth if I were to purchase the shoes. I can't see why a ribbed heel is necessary and also, this would increase the sensitivity of the heel, something that I read others complain about. I'll try and get to a shop to try some on and post my comments when I have regarding the G2/Dragon comparisons.

[Nick S]

Thanks for the reply Nick.

I'd be interested to know if they felt narrower because of the lack of stretch over the top of the shoe as my dragons have stretched a fair amount over the top to accommodate my very bunched toes. Evolv state that the G2's have thinner rubber over the toes than the original so this may help.

A combination of the two, I thought. The toe box was definitely a bit narrower straight out of the box, but the lack of stretch means there's not a lot of tolerance for getting the fit wrong.

Hmmm, I wouldn't want them much stiff than the dragon but slightly stiffer would be bearable (I like to have feedback through my toes).

Fair enough, I like stiff shoes - for instance something like the quantum puts me off as it just seems far too flimsy. These seemed spot on - perhaps a bit Dragon or 'sazi Blanco-like straight out of the box, but they hold their stiffness. No problems with sensitivity though, I certainly got plenty of tactile feedback. I chatted to someone at the crag who had the G2s who reckoned they were a fair bit softer than the originals.

Lastly, I share your thoughts about the ribbed heel but I decided that I would sand it smooth if I were to purchase the shoes. I can't see why a ribbed heel is necessary and also, this would increase the sensitivity of the heel, something that I read others complain about. I'll try and get to a shop to try some on and post my comments when I have regarding the G2/Dragon comparisons.

Ribbed heel seemed a bit gimmicky, yeah. Deffo try them on, I bought a pair for a punt as they were on sale, and really liked them but sadly just the wrong shape for me.

[Wipey Why]

I really loved the original Talons and when they stopped making them I asked Beyond Hope to get me a pair of the G2s. However, I wasn't massively impressed. I felt they were too stiff (but I like softer shoes) and the ribbed heel felt awful and meant you were more likely to pop off stuff. I did post something a while ago about them, but can't seem to find it.

I think Nick has answered of your questions. What I would say is I know a few crushers who really like them. Furthermore, I think some people have found they have changed to midsole to a softer one. As with all internet shoe recommendations (or not as the case may be) go and try them on if you can, they might suit you.

[Willriseley]

Cant compare them to dragons  but the rubber on the toes is reasonably thin, mines lasted 6 months of climbing 2 times a week indoor/outdoor mix. There quite a narrow toe box but feels the same as ther 5.10's I have tried. I think they are quite a soft shoe, almost slipper like espechially once worn in.

[JayJ]

I find that the G2's are way better than the original talons, tried a pair at the boot demo at the works this year and thought they were really good.
Can't compare them to the dragons, but the talons are definitely worth considering.

[Andy F]

The toe is one of the best I've ever used, powerful but with lots of feel and the abundant rubber on top is great for hooking, but the heels take some breaking in and are a bit wide and deep for me. Pity they don't put the Shaman heel on the Talon G2 toe. Now that would be some shoe.

[Richie Crouch]

I find the heel crap on all evolv's apart from the Optimus prime but then the toe box is too rounded.

I 2nd andy on the toe box. Really nice feel to it. I've used them for the last few weeks indoors and out and haven't wanted to reach for my dragons or teams as usual! It's a shame the heels are a bit baggy.

[cha1n]

Thanks for the extra feedback guys. Dragon wearers that now use the G2, do you also find them narrower in the toebox than the dragon? I don't think I could go narrower than the dragon myself.

Also, what size G2 did you get and what size dragon do you wear?

Thanks for the help people.

[cha1n]

Oh and does this mean the Shaman toebox isn't very good? I did have a look at a pair once, but they seemed very stiff. Much stiffer than I like.

[Richie Crouch]

They don't feel any narrower than dragons to me. A bit stiff out the box but once worn for a while, the sweat caused by the lining makes them feel better and more comfortable. Definitely just the right amount of rubber above the toes too which is softer and more flexible than that on the team.

I went for street shoe size as with dragons, so uk 9, but I did wear dragons and teams in 8.5 for quite a while (that's probably more to do with 5.10's random sizing).

[cha1n]

Thanks for the extra info Rich. I'll definitely be trying some on soon, although it's not overly urgent as my dragons are in good condition. It's a shame to hear that the heel isn't very good, but the dragon heel doesn't fit me depth wise anyway (width is perfect though).

Just out of interest Rich, what made you switch from the dragon/teams? The G2 seems like a dragon/team hybrid to me and that's what makes them appealing to me. Not having to carry several pairs of shoes to the crag would be nice!

[Richie Crouch]

They were free, so just started using them for indoors and found them to be worthy of further experimentation outside, where they have performed admirably

[TobyD]

They were free, so just started using them for indoors and found them to be worthy of further experimentation outside, where they have performed admirably

that's all very well, but don't they clash horribly with your 3-stripes?

[Richie Crouch]

A very valid point. Hopefully sports direct are well stocked with lime green 3 stripes at the moment, although if the temps keep rising at the current rate, green speedos could be a better choice!

[cha1n]

Tried some of these on yesterday. Sizing wise, I wear a 10.5 in a dragon and tried a 10 on in the talon and the 9 felt a little big.

I didn't think they felt overly stiff and would think that they'd soften nicely if past evolves are anything to go by. I didn't think the toebox was narrower and would say it was slightly more rounded at the toe, but not by much. I didn't love the material of them and my feet started to sweat after wearing them for about 30 seconds. I also thought that the split tongue was bulky, unnecessary and just got in the way when trying to do the laces up. Lastly, they didn't seem to flex overly well at the first big toe joint. The extensive rubber rand on the inside edge is not very flexible and it bulges out when flexing the forefoot. The 5.10 team gets around this problem by breaking the high rand at the first, big toe joint. On a plus note, the shoe is narrower at the heel and is therefore *slightly* better than the dragon and the toe rubber is very soft and supple.

Overall though, I didn't feel that this shoe has the toe power of the dragon and feels a bit clumpy on the foot in comparison. I will therefore stick with the dragons for now!