[Sasquatch]

This winter I was doing 3 days a week of FB with targeted active recovery (easy climbing/bouldering) days in between.  I found my recovery period (48 hrs) seemed about perfect with this schedule.  I wasn't really doing any other type of active recovery work at the time. 

This spring I started into a new cycle of FB aimed at max hangs instead of repeaters.  I've alos shifted my active recovery from easy climbing to running outside.  I've found my recovery from the FB workouts has gotten much longer I often find that even after 72hrs, my fingers aren't fully recovered.  The two big shifts are the change in type of active recovery and the change in intensity.  I'm adding back in the climbing active recovery on top of everything else to see if it helps.

My question for everyone is this:  Does anyone have any experience in looking at the difference in the impact of targeted active recovery vs. general active recovery? i.e. Is easy climbing better than running for an active recovery day from a hard climbing day?

[Sasquatch]

Not a single responce?  Not even a joke?

WTF

[Duma]

I know nothing, but I'll say this: running, however easy, is a load more work than easy climbing. easy climbing is really pretty low effort stuff in comparison to even a gentle run - just look at the size of the muscle groups involved.

[psychomansam]

No science, but i find: sauna, few lengths, steam room few lengths, repeat... ...boosts recovery from everything.

[erm, sam]

I'm sure DMC has said in his coaching blog that running doesn't have much impact on recovery in climibng specific muscles. So I think he would say if you are after active recovery then it shoudl be super easy climbing, focusing on movement skills etc.
I don't know much though, I  just parrot what I most recently heard like a mynar bird.

[ShortRound]

I'm sure DMC has said in his coaching blog that running doesn't have much impact on recovery in climibng specific muscles. So I think he would say if you are after active recovery then it shoudl be super easy climbing, focusing on movement skills etc.
I don't know much though, I  just parrot what I most recently heard like a mynar bird.

I know even less than erm, sam (my recovery involves eating and sitting) but what he has parrotted seems to make sense. 

[shark]

Have you come across this paper? :Effects of Active Recovery on Lactate Concentration, Heart Rate and RPE in climbing

Unfortunately it relates to using active recovery during a workout rather than between workouts but might provide some clues.  I was drawn to the comment that "The use of larger and or alternative muscle groups in the active recovery may benefit lactate clearance"

Don't know if it counts as active recovery but spraying cold water on your forearms after a session has been used to aid recovery.

[psychomansam]

I know nothing, but I'll say this: running, however easy, is a load more work than easy climbing. easy climbing is really pretty low effort stuff in comparison to even a gentle run - just look at the size of the muscle groups involved.

I'm sure you've considered it, but perhaps, in line with the energy expenditure of running, just thinking about diet and sleep.
You're comparing to previous experience, but is everything else controlled? 4:1 carb to protein intake before and immediately after exercise. Sufficient protein and healthy balanced diet. Good fluid intake, hydration before, during and immediately after exercise. What about drugs, caffeine, alcohol? They can majorly slow recovery.

Is sleep controlled for? 1 hour more/less a night would probably make a big difference.

The point about running would be that you need to be really hot on recovery, particularly with food and fluids IMMEDIATELY after and no alcohol, or the active recovery will probably become an active drain.

Eat. Enough. Protein.

[psychomansam]

Have you come across this paper? :Effects of Active Recovery on Lactate Concentration, Heart Rate and RPE in climbing

Unfortunately it relates to using active recovery during a workout rather than between workouts but might provide some clues.  I was drawn to the comment that "The use of larger and or alternative muscle groups in the active recovery may benefit lactate clearance"

Don't know if it counts as active recovery but spraying cold water on your forearms after a session has been used to aid recovery.

Quite interesting. The Works needs to set up a one way system on the walkways to allow people to go for a brisk walk between problems then...

[Sasquatch]

Thanks all for the responces. 

@ Duma - I actually disagree about the easy running being harder than easy climbing and oddly enough for the exact reason you mentioned.  You have really big muscle groups to propel you running, which makes it easier.  Lie anything if you train it you get better.  I've been running long enough now that I can go on a nice solid run for an hour and feel great.  No way could I stay on a nice solid route for an hour.  (maybe I should work on that......)

@ Erm, Sam & Shortround - Excellent parroting

@ Shark - Thanks and yes, I have seen that before. I've used the concept for setting up both my fingerbarding sessions as well as my body strength sessions. 

@psychomansam - Agreed on the diet and sleep.  In addition to the change in FB routine, I have also been putting effort into dropping weight.  I generally eat and sleep well, get appropriate food/fuel intake after workouts, etc. Alcohol in moderation 1-2 days a week, caffiene in moderation in the mornings (can't quit the morning cuppa), so I think I'm doing well in those areas.

[Sasquatch]

I did a hard FB workout on Sunday, then good active recovery climbing monday and my fingers feel fantastic. 

Gotta love the ultra-scientific n=1 studies.  I'll post again in a couple of days, after a couple more FB workouts. 

[Sasquatch]

OK, A month later and what I've found.

1.  2 days a week of FB is great for maximum recruitment and strength building.  3 days a week is just too much for me for pure maximum strength building.  Regardless of active recovery type, I don't get enough recovery.

2.  Active recovery helps, as does massage.  Both help more in the general feeling than in the actual supercompensation timeframe.

3. Different FB workouts can simulate Strength, Power Endurance, Endurance or Stamina.  Make sure the FB workout you are doing matches your goal.

4. I think both targeted active recovery and general have their place.  I have found the greatest return on doing general active recovery 12-24 hrs after, and targeted 24-36hr after. 

 

[Richie Crouch]

Sounds good! I'm currently playing with a campus/hard boulder on 45 board session followed by a max strength fingerboard session the next day and repeat (4 days on) then a rest day of doing fuck all and then getting out on rock once a week to try and keep the movement good.

Hoping to see small gains after a few weeks of this and a few rest days before going on a trip to magic but it has probably come too soon. The September peak is the real goal!

It's always interesting to hear of others plans and training ideas. Cheers for the investigations. I've done similar to yourself in cutting down on booze whilst in the training phase and am limiting curry and kebab intake! Hopefully these painful sacrifices pay off!

[TobyD]

@ Duma - I actually disagree about the easy running being harder than easy climbing and oddly enough for the exact reason you mentioned.  You have really big muscle groups to propel you running, which makes it easier. 

I think that how 'hard' climbing is, is often underestimated for a number of reasons. Climbing may involve quite a large, or a small percentage of your body muscle mass; it is not just a series of isometric finger flexor contractions - stemming up a groove, you'd be using abdominals , everything in your legs, as well as yarding on any available holds.

from a purely subjective point of view, it depends what i am trying to recover from as to whether i prefer aerobic exercise or easy climbing / arc type activity. bouldering or hard sport - easy moves are great, massive trad days - gentle running.

[Sasquatch]

I think that how 'hard' climbing is, is often underestimated for a number of reasons. Climbing may involve quite a large, or a small percentage of your body muscle mass; it is not just a series of isometric finger flexor contractions - stemming up a groove, you'd be using abdominals , everything in your legs, as well as yarding on any available holds.

That makes alot of sense.  And you're definitely right that climbers tend to forget the total muscle engagement (At least I do) invovled in climbing.