[mrjonathanr]

I'll take that as a 'no' then. Obviously there's spin on both sides and the facts which support each side will be promoted rather than an overview, but I'm sceptical there's no foundation to what Unite are saying. This administration however, just lie. They're brazen and they've done it plenty of contexts.

I don't have time - or will- to get into when where and how so I won't, particularly as at some point  it'll involve some reference to Gove and then we'll be here forever.

My point is if you're going to bandy about figures eg £45k and strong opinions you should know what you're talking about and be prepared to explain and justify it.

As for panic buying, maybe you haven't seen it. That doesn't mean no-one else hasn't, just that it's patchy.

[Bubba]

I'd be interested to actually see exactly what changes these drivers are proposing to take action over - forgive me if it's been published elsewhere but can anyone link it?

I believe drivers who drive hazardous loads around our crowded roads should be paid well, shouldn't be made to work unsafe hours, etc, etc.  People who haven't been there really have no idea what it's like to constantly be driving on the defensive, in a vehicle weighing up to 44t carrying a cargo that has the potential to create an incident that will not only most likely kill them, but also many around them and bring the surrounding road network to a standstill. It's fucking stressful.  In the majority of jobs, if you fuck up you might get a slapped wrist - in this job a false move can cause death to many people including yourself in an instant. 

So when people come out with things like "yeah but they're earning 40k, why should they complain?" on the one hand I agree, most drivers don't get anywhere near this and work far longer hours than fuel delivery tanker drivers, but on the other hand I think "good luck to them, if I could do it I would too".  They're lucky they have a powerful union and are key players in a just-in-time delivery system that when it goes down affects thousands of people.

About 50% of my working week involves carrying around full loads of cylinders of dissolved acetylene - this cargo is considered just as dangerous as petrol tankers but a typical day will involve me working 12 hours non-stop with usually between 7 to 10 hours of that time actually driving. The rest of the time is strapping / unstrapping loads or sitting in queues at the the docks. There's no lunch break, there's no overtime.  And we get about £25k if we're lucky.  If a load of DA goes up then it's a major incident.  Yeah, we're technically governed by the WTD but most drivers end up working through their breaks or they'll be looking at 14hr shifts.  And there's a lot of way more dangerous stuff than petrol being carted about by drivers who are almost universally overworked and underpaid. 

So when I hear people moan about what an easy life tanker drivers have and how they shouldn't be sticking up for their "cushy" working conditions then they can get fucked. Try carrying ADR loads around our roads for a few months and I guarantee you'll think differently.

[rich d]

Tanker drivers do more than train drivers with similar potential for headline making disasters. So should probably get more.
I don't understand people's jealousy for other workers earning a decent wage - if you think they're overpaid for what they do, train to do what they do perhaps?
I drive loads for work in a car and don't find that stressful (apart from when I can't buy fuel) but did once drive a quite large van for the day and that was a bit more stressful so I obviously know what I'm talking about.

[Jaspersharpe]

A cynic might conclude that the panic mongering was a (successful) ploy to boost the quarterly GDP/tax take figures.

It's also helped bury the "Cash for Dave's Dinners" story. And what mrjonathanr said.

[slackline]

A cynic might conclude that the panic mongering was a (successful) ploy to boost the quarterly GDP/tax take figures.

Clocked some crude calculations on this yesterday.

[lagerstarfish]

I googled "david cameron is a fucking idiot" and this thread is the 4th result on the list - not sure whether that is because Google is trying to give me what it thinks I want or whether UKB is a major influence on sweary opinion making

 

[Jaspersharpe]

.most people filling their cars up in the last few days will be monthly paid people who always fill their cars up at this time,others will be filling up cars ready for weekend trips and others ready for the bank holiday weekend where everywhere is busy anyway.this whole thing has been blown up.cameron gets slaughtered for suggesting filling up but if he hadnt said anything he would have been slated for not advising people that petrol could become scarce-no win situation

Bloody hell just clocked this! What complete and utter nonsense. Perhaps you didn't notice but how the fuck does this explain the 170% increase in sales of petrol and 80% in diesel?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/fuel/9175292/Fuel-strike-petrol-delivery-backlog-reaches-two-to-three-days-warns-motor-trade-union.html

It's not nice to admit it but a lot people do actually listen to what fuckwits like Maude and Cameron say and act accordingly without looking at the facts for themselves. You have two options, the politicians are really that stupid or they did it on purpose (or perhaps a bit of both).

Obviously not every area has been affected as badly some by this idiocy but I saw queues at three garages on my way home last night. This did happen and it was the politicians' (and in part the media's) fault.

[tomtom]

They (politicians) are that stupid. I listened to Maude on R4 on wed lunchtime (on my way back from the cliff a meeting) and the interviewer tore strips off him about the jerrycan episode. Tool.

I dont think it was intentional - they had pastygate to cover the cash for whatever issue over - so a genuine cock up.

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Well done Francis Maude!

Breaking News: York woman sets fire to herself decanting petrol from one container to another.

(No further information as yet)

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

.most people filling their cars up in the last few days will be monthly paid people who always fill their cars up at this time,others will be filling up cars ready for weekend trips and others ready for the bank holiday weekend where everywhere is busy anyway.this whole thing has been blown up.cameron gets slaughtered for suggesting filling up but if he hadnt said anything he would have been slated for not advising people that petrol could become scarce-no win situation

Bloody hell just clocked this! What complete and utter nonsense. Perhaps you didn't notice but how the fuck does this explain the 170% increase in sales of petrol and 80% in diesel?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/fuel/9175292/Fuel-strike-petrol-delivery-backlog-reaches-two-to-three-days-warns-motor-trade-union.html

It's not nice to admit it but a lot people do actually listen to what fuckwits like Maude and Cameron say and act accordingly without looking at the facts for themselves. You have two options, the politicians are really that stupid or they did it on purpose (or perhaps a bit of both).

Obviously not every area has been affected as badly some by this idiocy but I saw queues at three garages on my way home last night. This did happen and it was the politicians' (and in part the media's) fault.

And not least the people in the queue contributing to, and causing the problem?

[Jaspersharpe]

Clocked some crude calculations on this yesterday.

That's brilliant. Shows what a load of bollocks the whole obsession with 0.1% points of GDP is. Anyone in business will tell you that there hasn't been any "recovery" or (and I hate the fucking term) "double dip" recession. Things have basically bumped along flatly for the past few years for most.

[tomtom]

"But what would happen if everyone were to do that?"

"Then I'd be a damned fool not to join them"

Catch22...

[slackline]

I googled "david cameron is a fucking idiot" and this thread is the 4th result on the list - not sure whether that is because Google is trying to give me what it thinks I want or whether UKB is a major influence on sweary opinion making

 

Its probably in part due to your filter bubble.

[tomtom]

# 2 and 3 for me... Faceache page for this is #1...

Wheres Sloper. Its at times like this I miss him...

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Well done Francis Maude!

Breaking News: York woman sets fire to herself decanting petrol from one container to another.

(No further information as yet)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17560534

A fire service spokesman said: "Her daughter asked her mum for petrol because she had run out. The cooker was on and the fumes ignited."

[Jaspersharpe]

The more they fuck the country the more the timing of Sloper's departure makes perfect sense. 

[tomtom]

A fire service spokesman said: "Her daughter asked her mum for petrol because she had run out. The cooker was on and the fumes ignited."

Darwin award...

[cheque]

I'd be interested to actually see exactly what changes these drivers are proposing to take action over - forgive me if it's been published elsewhere but can anyone link it?

Eeyar duck

I believe drivers who drive hazardous loads around our crowded roads should be paid well, shouldn't be made to work unsafe hours, etc, etc.

 

[Jaspersharpe]

Unite have confirmed there will be no strike over the Easter period. STOP BUYING FUEL YOU MORONS.

[Jaspersharpe]

https://twitter.com/damongreenITV/status/185675390445027329

 

[Jaspersharpe]

Quality:

https://twitter.com/Skymids/status/185656357221957632

[slackline]

Err isn't this the exact opposite of what talks are hoping to achieve? 

[Bubba]

It's just a temporary change.  They do this from time to time, last time I can remember was a similar relaxation to 11hrs after the heavy snows in the winter 2010/11.

I don't think it'll affect most regular tanker drivers as I doubt many of them are ever hitting the 10hr driving-time limit anyway.  They tend to do short shifts without a huge amount of driving for h&s reasons.  Can't be having tired fuel-tanker drivers on the roads can we? Shame this sensible idea doesn't apply across the board to all drivers carrying hazardous goods whether in tanks, bulk or packages like it should.

[slackline]

Certainly seems to be mixed standards, some chemicals are far more dangerous than petrol.

[Bubba]

Yep, I agree. Problem is it's not law, the fuel tanker guys just have a strong union and sensible employers.

Where I run out of, the gas tanker drivers who are employed by BOC also earn a lot of money and do similar shifts to the fuel guys, but because contractors like me are just run by a general haulage company, we're run off our feet despite most of the time carrying more dangerous gas.

I think it should be legal that if you're running under ADR (the regs covering hazardous goods) then you should be subject to stricter working time rules, e.g. 8hrs max driving, 13hr max working time instead of the regular 10hrs/15hrs.  The problem is it would be hard to enforce so it relies on having scrupulous employers.

You can see now why getting a fuel tanker driving job is extremely hard, usually relying on who you know.  Of course, you also need to live near the refineries and I'd rather not live anywhere like Immingham, Ellesmere Port, etc.