[gremlin]

Hi,

Does anyone here use weights/resistance bands as a means for improving bouldering strength? if so what type of exercises do people recommend and is it low weight, hi reps or high weight low reps?

I realise that the best thing for bouldering is bouldering but sometimes it's not convenient to get to a crag or a wall, particularly in winter.

Ta 

[Pebblespanker]

Hi

I use supersets of dumbell work as part of my PE training to suplement what I can do on the Beast and to complete the pump. I tend to try and target the muscle groups not worked fully on the board when doing repeaters so do Bicep Curls (seated or standing), Press, Bent Over flyes and Wrist Curls one after the other 30 reps/set and then a last set of one of the above to failure/uber pump. Not tried to include weight routines into strength training yet ... need to buy some more free weights first. Seems to help me (old weak punter) but that aint saying much!

Sure someone will come along who can advise on the strength side

Cheers,

[i_a_coops]

A couple of years ago, I went through a phase of doing lots of weighted pullups, as my then-girlfriend objected to me climbing too much  . I never trained consecutive days, and started each session off with a one or two rep max then slowly reduced the weight for subsequent sets with plenty of rest in between sets. slowly increased the number of reps throughout the session as well.

As a result, I got really, really fucking good at pullups.

I'm currently trying to do some sets with the dumbells during/straight after fingerboard sessions as I have a vague recollection that working more muscle groups makes the body release more whatever-it-is that promotes muscle repair/growth. Not much SCIENCE behind that and I don't really know if it's working yet, but it's keeping me entertained while I can't climb.

[gremlin]

So, did being really good at pull-ups have a positive effect on your bouldering or general climbing ability? 

[i_a_coops]

Short answer:  , the summer I got good at pullups I went from being able to do about 10 pullups to about 28, and could do one armers and 80% body weight pullups. My bouldering grade went from 7B to 7B, and I wasn't doing enough routes for strength to be a limiting factor on them.

Long answer: I think it may have helped in the long run but it took me a long time to work out how to use that strength. I think I'm better than I otherwise would be at powerful moves on non-ming holds. Also, climbing on steep ground seems to work all the muscles in your back, whereas anything I've managed to do with weights and a bar has only targeted very specific ones. I had 3 months off last year with a broken foot, in that time I got much better than I have ever been at one armers and front levers etc. but when I started climbing again people commented on my back muscles had visibly dwindled in size  , and I didn't feel that strong.

The other possible benefit of doing weights is that it might help toughen you up to withstand longer sessions at the wall or multiple redpoint attempts in the same session. No science behind that one either I'm afraid.

On the other hand, 2 months of doing lots of encores on smaller holds on the beastmaker in addition to levers and dumbell excercises (and no climbing at all) seems to have had a positive effect on my general climbing strength, and I don't seem to have atrophied this time! (I've just completely forgotten how to use my feet)

[ianv]

I am convinced weights can benefit your climbing. Before walls were common, there were times when I was unable to get on rock much for pretty long periods and I just did weights and fingerboards. These periods always led to significant progression.  Even when I lived in Provence I did at least two weights sessions a week and it made a difference.

I did stuff like weighted pull ups, heavy lat pull downs, one arm pull downs, weighted locks, dumbbell rows. Pretty much all upper body stuff, usually low rep higher weights or pyramid sets 10-1-10. That combined with finger boards seemed to lead to some big jumps in route and grades.

Even more recently, I hadn't climbed for years but had been doing gym work. The first time I went to a wall, I certainly felt strong enough to climb some OK grades if I had just been able to hang on.

"the summer I got good at pullups I went from being able to do about 10 pullups to about 28, and could do one armers and 80% body weight pullups."

I am amazed that this didn't translate to better climbing, there must have been something else that was missing.

"The other possible benefit of doing weights is that it might help toughen you up to withstand longer sessions at the wall or multiple redpoint attempts in the same session. "

This is why gymnasts do weights, so they can train the more technical aspects for longer.

[i_a_coops]

"the summer I got good at pullups I went from being able to do about 10 pullups to about 28, and could do one armers and 80% body weight pullups."

I am amazed that this didn't translate to better climbing, there must have been something else that was missing.

Time on rock, and climbing with other people I think. I'm planning on spending this summer road tripping in the UK and Europe so hopefully that'll sort out my strength/technique imbalance!

[Nick S]

I used weights as a supplement to my bouldering training last winter and I'm pretty sure that (in combination with a lot of climbing, volume, threshold bouldering etc.) helped my lock off strength and general shoulder burl, in going from fairly routinely climbing V5 indoors to V7 indoors and getting font 7a ticked outside (on grit, of all things). So yes I got stronger and better at climbing but it didn't exactly set the world on fire.

What I was doing was fairly specifically targeted at a muscular weakness - I was generally quite weak and lightly built before starting climbing, so while I was relatively strong (relative to body weight) in positions and using muscles that get used a lot (eg. finger and lat strength), it was the occasional burly deep lock or shoulder press/gaston move which would typically shut me down.

My routine was generally bolton or javorek complexes to warm up, followed by specific exercises like bicep curls, tricep extensions, bent over rows, rear lateral raise, etc. rather than spending too much time targeting the big pull muscles that get used all the time (eg lats) as I figured that was not what my training was missing. I threw in alternating sets on heavy finger rolls with fingerboarding, and I also did slightly more specific strength work like offset pull ups (on campus rungs eg. 1+3, 1+4) and travelling pull ups on rock rings. All of this done 2-3 times per week either after climbing, during the day, or on rest days.

My weight went up by about a kilo but as I am still generally pretty weak in the scheme of things I'm pretty sure my strength to weight ratio improved.

In short I think weights can be beneficial but are probably most effectively used as a supplement to target whatever muscular weaknesses you have (and to address imbalances that could lead to injuries) so I think careful thought on what to train and why needs to be used. I also found it quite addictive and it is quite easy to get carried away... Hope that helps.

[robertostallioni]

"The other possible benefit of doing weights is that it might help toughen you up to withstand longer sessions at the wall or multiple redpoint attempts in the same session. "

This is why gymnasts do weights, so they can train the more technical aspects for longer.

I see no evidence of the first point 

the second is not true in my opinion, but I'd be interested to here where you get this from. It is certainly contrary to everything I have seen/heard

ie. please read this article. Muscle mag interviews US team coach about his athletes. its good.http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/all_muscle_no_iron;jsessionid=7867B941CA47E33E23ED683DE44B6721-mcd01.hydra

[ianv]

There was a load of Leeds Uni gymnasts at the gym I used to go to in leeds, I got it off them

I also saw something on the site of all knowledge:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1105   Uk team spend a day training with gymnasts.

[mr__j5]

I would suggest that the best use of weights is to improve the antagonistic muscles.

So all of the those muscles in your upper body that aren't getting stronger due to climbing.

Strengthening them up will generally make you less likely to injury whilst climbing and they can also improve your climbing strength. This normally means lots of the pushing type of exercise such as bench presses.

Squats are also good for strengthen the core stability.

[robertostallioni]

There was a load of Leeds Uni gymnasts at the gym I used to go to in leeds, I got it off them

I also saw something on the site of all knowledge:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1105   Uk team spend a day training with gymnasts.

ha ha.

from the gymnastics club I frequent (as a parent only) the male coaches set no time aside, ever, to weight(lifting) training for either male or females, only bodyweight progressions, stretching and skills work.

I just cannot see a place for lifting at all in the gymnasts program. I could be wrong, its been known 

would be interesting to hear from the Carnegie gymnasts as to why they frequented a gym.

[lukeh]

ie. please read this article. Muscle mag interviews US team coach about his athletes. its good.http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/all_muscle_no_iron;jsessionid=7867B941CA47E33E23ED683DE44B6721-mcd01.hydra

Good article, cheers . Don't suppose you've had a chance to look at the book (or know of something similar) Sommer mentions at the end - Building the Olympic[/gymnastic] Body? Sounds like it'd be a pretty good intro (and then some) but the only place I could find it was $88 including shipping!

[robertostallioni]

no, but our lass(wannabe gym coach) keeps hinting at it, so no doubt it'll appear on the shelf at some point, next to the hulka-matic and the ab-roller.

[Nibile]

I want to start deadlifting.

[Nibile]

I know it's not a boulder specific exercise, but I'm getting excited about it and wanted to tell someone.

Sorry.

[ianv]

"from the gymnastics club I frequent (as a parent only) the male coaches set no time aside, ever, to weight(lifting) training for either male or females, only bodyweight progressions, stretching and skills work"

At the carnigie, the coach led sessions are all about the apparatus etc. The lads pump iron when they don't have skill sessions.

 

[Seb]

I want to start deadlifting.

Its a great exercise. Really satisfying, if I had access to a gym Id deadlift for fun as well as climb.

[Falling Down]

I also like deadlifting.   

[Oldmanmatt]

I also like deadlifting.   

oooh!

Chalkstorm made my palms sweat...

[Falling Down]

  but That's Erm..Sam climbing and Galpinos holding the ropes :-)

[mr__j5]

I want to start deadlifting.

Members of the bouldering team have been known to do some deadlifting during thier strength phase.

[i_a_coops]

"The other possible benefit of doing weights is that it might help toughen you up to withstand longer sessions at the wall or multiple redpoint attempts in the same session. "

This is why gymnasts do weights, so they can train the more technical aspects for longer.

I see no evidence of the first point 

the second is not true in my opinion, but I'd be interested to here where you get this from. It is certainly contrary to everything I have seen/heard

Surely if my maximum is 2 sets of 10 pullups in one hour, and I'm not got the opportunity to climb very much, say, then I could go to the wall and have a few attempts on a route with lots of deep locks and then I'd be spannered. Now if I can suddenly do 30 sets of 10 pullups in an hour, as a result of doing weights and bar exercises most days, then I'll surely manage a longer session? Which in turn means more time gaining experience of climbing movement when I do actually make it to a wall. ...

I should really have added 'if you can't make it to a climbing wall/crag quite as often as you'd like...

[rodma]

Deadlifting is good Nibs

It helps me for burlier moves, but most importantly I feel like a hero after several reps at a semi-decent weight 

[ianv]

but most importantly I feel like a hero after several reps at a semi-decent weight 

I think I saw you on youtube 

[rodma]

a couple of undeniable similarities there   

Firstly the bar bends just as much when I do deadlifts (but that's because I use a cheap york set of weights)

Secondly my pre-lift routine is identical.

Unfortunately, I'm not an actual hero like Benedikt 

[mark s]

Deadlifts are great.won't do them every week as takes days to recover.

[slackline]

"The other possible benefit of doing weights is that it might help toughen you up to withstand longer sessions at the wall or multiple redpoint attempts in the same session. "

This is why gymnasts do weights, so they can train the more technical aspects for longer.

I see no evidence of the first point 

the second is not true in my opinion, but I'd be interested to here where you get this from. It is certainly contrary to everything I have seen/heard

Surely if my maximum is 2 sets of 10 pullups in one hour, and I'm not got the opportunity to climb very much, say, then I could go to the wall and have a few attempts on a route with lots of deep locks and then I'd be spannered. Now if I can suddenly do 30 sets of 10 pullups in an hour, as a result of doing weights and bar exercises most days, then I'll surely manage a longer session? Which in turn means more time gaining experience of climbing movement when I do actually make it to a wall. ...

I should really have added 'if you can't make it to a climbing wall/crag quite as often as you'd like...

But pull-ups only work larger muscles in your arms/shoulders.

You'd likely find that your forearms get knackered before your arms/shoulders fatigue is perhaps the point.

[rodma]

Deadlifts are great.won't do them every week as takes days to recover.

Like most training, you become accustomed to it, training once a fortnight isn't likely to be very beneficial.

where's the DOMS emoticon?

[Big Dave]

Deadlifts all the way (180kg is my max without wrist straps ) Stimulates every muscle in the body and as said the feeling of raw power when doing them heavy is great.

Stick to low reps as they're hard on the cns and get form right before moving up the weight. A good target weight is 2x bodyweight.

[i_a_coops]

But pull-ups only work larger muscles in your arms/shoulders.

You'd likely find that your forearms get knackered before your arms/shoulders fatigue is perhaps the point.

Fair.

=> Fingerboard too!

[gremlin]

I like the idea of the gymnastic bodyweight exercises but it's not easy getting hold of a pommel horse (or fitting) a set of gymnastic rings!

Looks like the best bet is to do a variety of strength exercises (low reps, high weight) including squats.

[mark s]

Deadlifts are great.won't do them every week as takes days to recover.

Like most training, you become accustomed to it, training once a fortnight isn't likely to be very beneficial.

where's the DOMS emoticon?

I go the gym five days. Week,so not as if I'm slacking

[rodma]

Deadlifts are great.won't do them every week as takes days to recover.

Like most training, you become accustomed to it, training once a fortnight isn't likely to be very beneficial.

where's the DOMS emoticon?

I go the gym five days. Week,so not as if I'm slacking

Weird, why so long to recover??

[gremlin]

 I go the gym five days. Week,so not as if I'm slacking
[/quote]

How do you find the time (and energy) to climb?

[robertostallioni]

I like the idea of the gymnastic bodyweight exercises but it's not easy getting hold of a pommel horse (or fitting) a set of gymnastic rings!

Looks like the best bet is to do a variety of strength exercises (low reps, high weight) including squats.

there are years of gymastic pommel training before a pommel horse is touched. Stretching so you can actually make the requires shapes and learning the movements/specific muscle building firstly on the floor itself, and then with feet in a bucket doing circles.

some good walls have rings and much can be done off the bat, but again, there is much time to be put into stretching and strengthening for shapes/transitions also.

[mark s]

Deadlifts are great.won't do them every week as takes days to recover.

Like most training, you become accustomed to it, training once a fortnight isn't likely to be very beneficial.

where's the DOMS emoticon?

I go the gym five days. Week,so not as if I'm slacking

Weird, why so long to recover??

i vary my back workouts alot.this monday will include deadlifts.deadlifts are along with squats the heaviest weights you will lift.its a big strain on your body.its an excersise i like to do as heavy as possible,until failure.

[mark s]

 I go the gym five days. Week,so not as if I'm slacking

How do you find the time (and energy) to climb?
[/quote]

its very rare i get out now,a baby put an end to that.plus i really like going the gym now.it costs more than i thought though,all the food and supplements cost more than a new pair of boots

[rodma]

Deadlifts are great.won't do them every week as takes days to recover.

Like most training, you become accustomed to it, training once a fortnight isn't likely to be very beneficial.

where's the DOMS emoticon?

I go the gym five days. Week,so not as if I'm slacking

Weird, why so long to recover??

i vary my back workouts alot.this monday will include deadlifts.deadlifts are along with squats the heaviest weights you will lift.its a big strain on your body.its an excersise i like to do as heavy as possible,until failure.

I also like to go until failure (or until tunnel vision sets in), but don't lift that heavy, only about 1.5 bodyweight. When i used to lift more my lower back curved to compensate for the weakness in my core, which was not beneficial. If i can get my core strong enough I'll be upping the weight.

That makes sense that you need more rest if you are training hard down the gymn, it would mess you up for your other exercises I guess. I don't mind feeling broken when going out climbing or going to the wall, probably because it's more difficult to benchmark when climbing, so like deadlifting more frequently. I only try to rest up before a trip these days.

[douglas]

regarding the dead lifts do you find any mass gain from bigger legs is compensated for by being stronger in the upper body? or do you need finger strength to spare? do the deadlifts even give you big legs...?

[rodma]

I have sparrow legs and always have had, but my body doesn't seem to build muscle very easily.

I'm sure others on here will have found that weights have had the opposite effect on them.

[douglas]

okay, cheers Rodma.

[mark s]

regarding the dead lifts do you find any mass gain from bigger legs is compensated for by being stronger in the upper body? or do you need finger strength to spare? do the deadlifts even give you big legs...?

putting mass on takes along time,you are not going to get tom platz thighs from doing a few deadlifts.the benefits on your back will outweigh anything else.