[chummer]

I with you three nine to an extent. A big cock and massive pair of balls is the bed rock of British smut humor and I for one will never forget the time I first drew a cock and pair of balls in school.
However, once I had drawn a few sets of cocks and balls my smut humor quickly developed away from this into more intelligent smut humor like 'are your labs open today' to the Science Lab technician, and such like. May I suggest that you too develop your cock and balls humor a little more to prevent such puntering and general distain for the drawing of such things on rock? There is so much more than just drawing cocks and balls.

[rodma]

sam you've just wrote that you cleaned a hold and someone else put chalk on it after

Precisely. Why? Are they doing this in the mistaken belief that it will in some way improve the friction? It only ever reduces the friction. There's surely no excuse for spanking your chalk ball out all over a hold to chalk it up!? It screws you and more importantly everyone else.

All chalk does is remove damp/sweat. This is why it goes on ze hands. Now, if he put pof on the hold, that actually would improve friction. In fact, maybe i'll try that next week. Makes more sense no?

Just in the off chance you're not a troll

Some people (me included) put a little chalk on a newly brushed hold, so that when they actually get to it, after cutting through, the new chalk on the hold goes some way to absorb the sweat.

I can't believe I just replied, I managed to resist for ages. I'm so weak. 

[Lund]

sam you've just wrote that you cleaned a hold and someone else put chalk on it after

Precisely. Why? Are they doing this in the mistaken belief that it will in some way improve the friction? It only ever reduces the friction. There's surely no excuse for spanking your chalk ball out all over a hold to chalk it up!? It screws you and more importantly everyone else.

All chalk does is remove damp/sweat. This is why it goes on ze hands. Now, if he put pof on the hold, that actually would improve friction. In fact, maybe i'll try that next week. Makes more sense no?

Just in the off chance you're not a troll

Some people (me included) put a little chalk on a newly brushed hold, so that when they actually get to it, after cutting through, the new chalk on the hold goes some way to absorb the sweat.

I can't believe I just replied, I managed to resist for ages. I'm so weak. 

So, science:

Chalk has two purposes in gymnastics, where the usage came from.
- to absorb sweat
- to reduce friction, and reduce skin tears/blisters.

The effects vary with the amount of chalk.  Too much chalk just creates a massive mess, but other than that has both the effects above.  So a gymnastic can use loads, up to a point - although maybe there is a point where too much will reduce the friction too much and they won't be able to hold on... but they're depending mostly on grip strength to hold their hands hooked closed on the ring/bar/whatever rather than friction to stop their skin slipping off.

As a rock climber, we don't grab the hold like a handle - and thus need max friction to not slide off.  We use chalk to absorb the sweat - but what are looking to maximise friction.  Too little chalk = too much slippage from sweat, too much chalk = too much slippage from chalk.

So... we want to use the minimum amount of chalk possible to absorb the sweat.

So here's where I struggle to connect the science dots.  Does a mechanism by which you put chalk on a sloper and then onto your hand result in an effective *minimum* delivery of the chalk to the sweaty parts?

[a dense loner]

with every move chalk comes off your hands what if said sloper is 5moves in, you do the math
in fact if someone didn't use chalk on newly cleaned holds i'd think they were a cock and had no concept of what they were doing

[slackline]

Why do I have a little bag clipped round my waist to hold chalk? 

[clgladiator]

because you are also tied in and are climbing a route?

[Will Hunt]

There's surely no excuse for spanking your chalk ball out all over a hold to chalk it up!?

This is just silly. If you look at the original statement it implies that it is a mistake to get a whole chalk ball out and to aggressively cover a freshly brushed hold in chalk.

Dense argues that perhaps a careful application to a hold a few moves into a problem is appropriate because having wet hands is always worse than having hands that are a bit too chalky.

Lund is making the point that chalk reduces friction on surfaces that are already dry but that having wet hands is always worse than having hands that are a bit too chalky. This is pure SCIENCE.

Seeing as you are both trying to make the same point but are managing to argue about it you can both stop now.

[slackline]

because you are also tied in and are climbing a route?

Its there when I boulder too (it means that I don't lose it, it also means it doesn't get in others way lying on the floor).

[SA Chris]

Seeing as you are both trying to make the same point but are managing to argue about it you can both stop now.

What are you, some kind of relationship counsellor?

[Will Hunt]

I was thinking more a Billy Crystal type figure?

[i.munro]

Lund is making the point that chalk reduces friction on surfaces that are already dry but that having wet hands is always worse than having hands that are a bit too chalky. This is pure SCIENCE.

I know it's not SCIENCE but the science (what little there is) showed that under some conditions of temp, humidity hold smoothness etc ( the ones they tested under) that too chalky is considerably worse than wet.

[Stubbs]

Another bit of science like that evolv rubber giving the best friction story, where I'll take years of field testing over lab conditions.

[The Aaronator]

Lund is making the point that chalk reduces friction on surfaces that are already dry but that having wet hands is always worse than having hands that are a bit too chalky. This is pure SCIENCE.

I know it's not SCIENCE but the science (what little there is) showed that under some conditions of temp, humidity hold smoothness etc ( the ones they tested under) that too chalky is considerably worse than wet.

So...how would one go about putting together an experiment that tests this more comprehensively and scientifically? given the amount of variables - humidity, skin loss, temperature, hand size and everything else.

I personally feel that chalk on dry hands gives one a little extra grip. What about chalk mixed with drying agents and other additives?

[Jaspersharpe]

Its there when I boulder too (it means that I don't lose it, it also means it doesn't get in others way lying on the floor).

You'd lose your chalk bag if it wasn't tied to you?

[slackline]

I've lost a few over the years, mainly forgetting to pick it up when leaving somewhere (whether thats the crag, or the wall).  I tend to not bother taking it off and until I sit down in the car covering my back and the seat in chalk, that way I know I've got it and not left it at the crag.

I gave up buying Nalgenes after loosing my third one at the climbing wall as I'm forever putting it down at the base of a climb and forgetting to pick it up when I move to another (not a single one was handed in!).

[Jaspersharpe]

You dick.

[i.munro]

[
So...how would one go about putting together an experiment that tests this more comprehensively and scientifically? given the amount of variables - humidity, skin loss, temperature, hand size and everything else.

Well extending the work the guys at Brum did to a range of different temps & humidities should be easy (apart from getting funding :-) ).
Quantifying the amount of chalk is trickier.

[mr__j5]

The main reason that I see for chalking holds is due to them being wet normally caused by previous users having damp hands when they get to that hold.

But I normally brush the chalk off again since it's only being used to soak up the existing damp.

[psychomansam]

Oh god, i feel i just made us a little bit too much like the other channel.

In my view, as little chalk as possible never involves chalking a hold unless it's actually damp(outdoors). If an indoor hold is too greasy to use that day from too many sweaty hands, I prefer to leave it for another day. To me, the short-term benefit doesn't outweigh the long-term consequences of coating holds in chalk.

Maybe if you've got very sweaty hands, it could be worth using some liquid chalk in addition to you usual.

Despite this, i can at least understand applying a small amount of chalk to a hold indoors if it's high/a good few moves in on a problem as one of you said. Everyone has their own ethics.

However, the hold in question at the time was the second hold on the route. The first was a crimp. If his hand was sweaty it wasn't the poor little holds fault.

 

[i.munro]

Oh god, i feel i just made us a little bit too much like the other channel.

Is it only me that finds it odd that any discussion of how best to use one of the two tools we have in bouldering is somehow not allowed? 

[Stubbs]

Is it only me that finds it odd that any discussion of how best to use one of the two tools we have in bouldering is somehow not allowed? 

So do you believe that having no chalk on your hands or the rock, or maybe a little bit of water on your hands is better than chalk, and that everyone who uses chalk is wrong?

[i.munro]

So do you believe that having no chalk on your hands or the rock, or maybe a little bit of water on your hands is better than chalk, and that everyone who uses chalk is wrong?

I believe that we as climbers have no idea how or when to use this tool.  There seem to be at least four mutually contradictory theories, two  have cropped up in this thread. (neither of them inconsistent with the results in that Birmingham paper).

& I for one would like to know the answer/s.

[Lund]

Personally, I think there's a thing as too much chalk.  And too little chalk.  I definitely doubt that spanking chalk on a sloper indoors makes it easier to hold.  Unless you're an extremely sweaty cunt.

[Stubbs]

& I for one would like to know the answer/s.

I think taking an overall view there are probably easier ways to improve one's climbing success than worrying about the optimum chalk distribution on each hold for the given variables.  Like getting stronger.

[The Aaronator]

Can someone post a link to the research in question.