[Duncan Disorderly]

As the title suggests I've 3 weeks (well just over that) to get fit for Euro limestone......

Basically I've booksed a last minute trip to the Costa Blanca for half term and have really been taking it easy the past couple of months after spannering a finger.

This is finally on the mend so I thought I'd see what the concensus is on getting sport fit without setting myself back - I've been doing a couple of sessions a week of 4x4's (up to around F6b+) some AeroCap with some high volume bouldering (up to 6B max) and have ramped up the bouldering slightly the last week or so (managed a 7A on grit) with no noticable ill effects...

So what's the best use of my time? I was thinking 1-2 x 4x4 session, 1-2 x AeroCap,  1 - 2 x PE circuits (on steep ground with finger friendly holds) and some grit bouldering (weather permitting). I'd plan to ramp up the intensity and frequency of the sessions for 3 weeks and drop off for the last few days before flying out... I also thought I'd try and drop down a fair few kilos to lighten the load on the fingers but an not sure about the real benefits of this

How does this sound?

I know it's not an ideal time for a trip (coming back from an injury, lacking any real hard training time etc.) but the lure of sunkissed orange rock was too much to resist.

:D

[ducko]

avoid carbs if you do this and eat health stuff like chicken veg fruit etc you should loose a good few kg's before getting away!
its worked for me in the past!
as for climbing id do lots of climbing below my highest ability just get mileage done rather than hard problem last thing you want is a bad finger before you go away!

[Duncan Disorderly]

I've got a diet plan that I'll probably go with for 2 weeks and as you say cut out non essential carbs the rest of the time... Still not 100% sure how much difference this will make right now tbh... Really not looking forward to the thought of dieting.

On the plus side I did a PE/Hard AeroCap circuit session tonight and the finger feels fine (supposed to be 8 x 30 moves @ F6cish with 4mins rest but felt good so did 10 sets).... Definitely not pushing it with the finger and listening to any sign of pain but it's moving in the right direction...

:D

[ducko]

Loosing weight makes a big difference to everything, good luck!

[TobyD]

Loosing weight makes a big difference to everything, good luck!

.... if you are really carrying an excess. Losing a significant amount of weight (IIRC, DD is not a bloater!) in 3 weeks will probably result in depeletion of muscle mass, rather than fat.  Obviously it is worth binning excess lard, but realistically this will take longer to shed, unless you have loads of it.
With 3 weeks to get sorted, i'd do plenty of volume, trying to do actual routes inside (if you can only train inside) to get into all the clipping, and do plenty of falling off. At the end of the day, if you want ticks (sport climbing!) , you have to be able to try hard on the end of the rope, not just bang out circuits endlessly, and then whimper as soon as you are going to take a 3foot lob.
Bon chance, and enjoy, DD - sector wildside is amazing!

[jwi]

With 3 weeks to get sorted, i'd do plenty of volume, trying to do actual routes inside (if you can only train inside) to get into all the clipping, and do plenty of falling off. At the end of the day, if you want ticks (sport climbing!) , you have to be able to try hard on the end of the rope, not just bang out circuits endlessly, and then whimper as soon as you are going to take a 3foot lob.

 

[TobyD]

I know it's not an ideal time for a trip (coming back from an injury, lacking any real hard training time etc.) but the lure of sunkissed orange rock was too much to resist.

:D

I was in a similar situation going out to el chorro, and found that both made little difference - in some cases i may have been more relaxed and climbed better for not putting myself under any pressure, having not really bothered to train much, and knowing that hard  left hand 3 finger pockets / crimps were not allowed!

[ducko]

So if your still training and just taking in less carbs you'll be loosing muscle mass rather than fat? Sorry but I highly doubt that..

[Paul B]

.... if you are really carrying an excess. Losing a significant amount of weight (IIRC, DD is not a bloater!) in 3 weeks will probably result in depeletion of muscle mass, rather than fat. 

I guess this depends on your definition of 'significant'. Iif you use appropriate dieting methods i.e. grazing with high quality protein accompanying each small meal and switch the carbs you consume to complex (whilst being on an all over calorie deficit) you'll limit the amount of muscle loss and target fat oxidation.

I've noticed a (visible) difference in just under 3 weeks whether or not that has an impact on my actual climbing I'm not sure, it certainly makes me feel less guilty about the amount of alcohol consumed over Christmas. The other thing is, eating becomes somewhat dull. I'm fairly sure everything nice contains simple carbs.

[abarro81]

A rapid increase in volume accompanied by dieting just before a trip? Sounds like a recipe for arriving totally burnt out to me...

[Duncan Disorderly]

A rapid increase in volume accompanied by dieting just before a trip? Sounds like a recipe for arriving totally burnt out to me...

This is what I was worried about.. The last thing I want is to be fit(ter) and light(er) and have zero motivation or energy to climb anything. I am planning on a week by week increase in volume rather than just jumping straight from 3 to 7 sessions per week though.

Out of interest what would you suggest?

Regarding the diet thing, since New Year I've dropped all the crap out of my diet, only eating 3 square meals inc. protien, salad or veg and only more complex carbs (wholemeal pasta, brown rice, porridge etc.), cut out bread (mostly - had half a slice yesterday), switched to skimmed milk and have dropped 2 kgs (of Christmas bloat) with no issues whatsoever... I'd like to think that I'm not a bloater @ 6ft - 72Kg but my fighting (read: target) weight is around 69Kg, however I have to work pretty hard to maintain any less than this. In theory just keeping this up (and maybe cutting out booze completely for a few weeks) should yeild a continued drop but in my experience the closer I get to my (percieved) ideal weight the harder it is to make significant changes requiring more extreme measures.

The weight issue was as much related to trying to not stress the mending finger as aiding performance... Again I'm not sure the benefits of this. I'm running on my off days now as a form of active rest so I'll see how this pans out with the weight thing.

Appreciate all your input though it's all food for thought (pardon the pun).

:D

[TobyD]

A rapid increase in volume accompanied by dieting just before a trip? Sounds like a recipe for arriving totally burnt out to me...

This is what I was worried about.. The last thing I want is to be fit(ter) and light(er) and have zero motivation or energy to climb anything. I am planning on a week by week increase in volume rather than just jumping straight from 3 to 7 sessions per week though.
Out of interest what would you suggest?
Regarding the diet thing, since New Year I've dropped all the crap out of my diet, only eating 3 square meals inc. protien, salad or veg and only more complex carbs (wholemeal pasta, brown rice, porridge etc.), cut out bread (mostly - had half a slice yesterday), switched to skimmed milk and have dropped 2 kgs (of Christmas bloat) with no issues whatsoever... I'd like to think that I'm not a bloater @ 6ft - 72Kg but my fighting (read: target) weight is around 69Kg, however I have to work pretty hard to maintain any less than this. In theory just keeping this up (and maybe cutting out booze completely for a few weeks) should yeild a continued drop but in my experience the closer I get to my (percieved) ideal weight the harder it is to make significant changes requiring more extreme measures.

I agree with abarro totally.
DD, in my opinion that is pretty bloody light for your height. I weigh not far shy of that (67-8ish when last checked), 5'9'', and don't think i am carrying too much excess really. Limit the booze a bit, and running are great, There isn't anything wrong with bread though, it's a great food unless you eat sliced pappy supermarket crap, but that would go for almost anything really.

[Fiend]

I know it's not an ideal time for a trip (coming back from an injury, lacking any real hard training time etc.)

It's the PERFECT time, because...

but the lure of sunkissed orange rock was too much to resist.

...loads of routes to do, warm weather, plenty of easy stuff if the finger can't hack harder stuff, good mileage, pure climbing pleasure rather than just training and trashing yourself.

P.S. I am 78 kg these days. Be grateful you can fucking run. And look after that finger too.

[abarro81]

Out of interest what would you suggest?

Honestly, I don't know. Sorry. The only time I can think of where I've had a somewhat comparable scenario is 18 months ago - I came back from 3 weeks non-climbing holiday where I ate loads and went to Ceuse/Magic Wood a few weeks later. Unfortunately I totally fucked up - I trained really hard and ended up arriving feeling like I needed to train because I was weak and unfit, yet feeling like I needed to rest because I'd done too much and was knackered.
I think my main advice would be to avoid having expectations of how hard you will/should climb, and just see what happens.

[duncan]

I've had more comebacks than <insert the Jamaican equivalent of> Frank Sinatra.

Those first few weeks when you think 'thank god ... I can climb again' and go a bit mad trying all the stuff that you have been avoiding over the previous months are a high-risk time for reinjury or developing an entirely new hurt.  Don't go mad. 

Any training adaptation in 3 weeks is going to be psychological and neurophysiological, so just do sport climbing or indoor climbing with a rope on that most closely resembles where you are going. 

[Duncan Disorderly]

Yea you're right... Not going to take the piss and flush all the recovery work down the loo. I've been doing a weekly routes session (4x4's on easyish ground) ensuring that I lead everything so I'm not too worried about tying onto a rope etc.. Maybe I'll aim to do something a little harder too and force the odd lob just to sort me head out tho.....

Will just keep up the AeroCap when I can't find a belayer to aid recovery...

Not having any expectations is a good plan and seeing as we'll be going with a 5 year old and a 12 week old will prevent me getting too frustrated.

Cheers guys....

:D

PS. Toots - Probably the closest thing to a living Jamaican Sinatra

[Paul B]

A rapid increase in volume accompanied by dieting just before a trip? Sounds like a recipe for arriving totally burnt out to me...

The first part sure, but the second? I think this stems from the average climber who diets thinking because Malc (and clearly went from climbing 7c+ to Hubble) and Stuey only ate carrots for a week that's what they should do to.

and maybe cutting out booze completely for a few weeks

Alcohol should be the first thing you cut out or stick to it in its most distilled forms with (shudder) slimline tonic if you must. My biggest fat loss was due to cutting out Coca Cola, something I know I shouldn't drink but usually I do so in worrying amounts.

[TobyD]

Any training adaptation in 3 weeks is going to be psychological and neurophysiological, so just do sport climbing or indoor climbing with a rope on that most closely resembles where you are going.

 
thanks Duncan, that is what i was trying to say above, but managed to be less clear, incisive and concise than that! 

[abarro81]

first part sure, but the second?

I guess it partly depends on what you count as 'dieting'. Avoiding large amounts of regular drinking, basing  meals around lean meat and veg, using skimmed milk etc. doesn't come under my 'dieting' tag since it's what I do anyway, whether I'm in heavy training mode or getting light for a trip mode. For others I guess it might count, and it wouldn't be more likely to make you burn out...

[Paul B]

first part sure, but the second?

I guess it partly depends on what you count as 'dieting'. Avoiding large amounts of regular drinking, basing  meals around lean meat and veg, using skimmed milk etc. doesn't come under my 'dieting' tag

Nor me, but more targetted dieting doesn't mean a huge calorie deficit. If you're doing it right there should be no reason for you to feel burnt out. If you start off with a large drop in calorific intake then you've got nowhere to go when you plateau too.