[simes]

What do the runners amongst you think of this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1170253/The-painful-truth-trainers-Are-expensive-running-shoes-waste-money.html

I know its the Daily Mail, sorry.
I've read Christopher McDougall's book, Born To Run, part of which covers barefoot running etc and I really enjoyed it.
And have any of you used the Five Fingers "trainers"?

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/barefoot-sports/barefoot_running.htm

Cheers, Si.

[highrepute]

just been reading about this myself. A nice Nature paper on the subject. Basically big nasty Nike been lying to us and fucking our legs up for the last 40yrs.

I think it's pretty hard to switch to forefoot striking when you've been rearfoot striking for years.

[TobyD]

I've read Born to Run as well: I thought it was very entertaining and really enjoyed it but he laboured the point perhaps a little too much as far as the 'this is what man was built for...' thread went. Generally, though it seemed to make sense.

Ironically, given the anti-consumerist slant of the 'modern running shoes are all a big rip off marketing scam' thing about barefoot running, Fivefingers, and their ilk are all bloody expensive! Otherwise i'd probably have bought some, but £90 is a lot to shell out for an interesting concept, which might not do anything for my trainer- bred feet. I could buy a new pair of fivetens for that 

[Seb]

Instead of buying some posh nike frees of fivefingers I just run in an old pair of adidas sambas that I got cheap. Really thin sole basically the same. It did take a while to change my running style but to be honest It hurts to heal strike in flat shoes so you get used to not doing it pretty quickly. (or get shin splits).

[duncan]

Ironically, given the anti-consumerist slant of the 'modern running shoes are all a big rip off marketing scam' thing about barefoot running, Fivefingers, and their ilk are all bloody expensive! Otherwise i'd probably have bought some, but £90 is a lot to shell out for an interesting concept, which might not do anything for my trainer- bred feet.

Tempted for £5?

[Nibile]

ahah, the power of the mind.
this past night I dreamt I was running barefoot.

[Plattsy]

I've tried the FFs on but I haven't run in them. They're a bit weird and obviously really expensive. There are alternative minimalist shoes available (reviewed here) but I'm not sure how many of these will be found in a running shoe shop. Maybe a pair of the Nike Free's.

These sound good. Be interesting to see how they're received.

[Duma]

I've got some of these:

I like them, but they are purely off road, and I found it pretty tiring to begin with. The feeling of being about to break into a sprint all the time is pretty odd until you get used to them.

[cjsheps]

Typical Daily Mail article right here!

Yes, it's true that those who buy more expensive trainers get more injuries. However, that's only because, as a general rule, if you're willing to splash out on expensive trainers you're going to be pretty keen.

So what that proves is that keener runners who do more running will get more injuries - this goes completely against their statement that your level of involvement has nothing to do with your likelihood of injury.

In short, I wouldn't take a blind bit of notice to anything this article says.

[Nibile]

yes that was what I what thinking too.
it's like saying that users of a BM2K get more injuries than users of a 1k.
it can be true but causes can be others than the BM.

[Muenchener]

I've got some of these:

Me too, but I only use them as lightweight approach shoes - as which they are very good, except the tread is a bit shallow for muddy descents in the woods.

[moose]

overview of the barefoot running science:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/nov/22/barefoot-running-science-guardian-sport-network

[boulderingbacon]

i do a fair bit of running in five fingers and my other shoes i run in are very minimal but the most important thing to remember about trainers with lots of cushioning is that it teaches your brain its ok to heal strike, which it isnt.  The most important thing to get right is your form ideally you want a mid foot to forefoot strike which will bring your feet under your centre of gravity. if you do this it doesnt matter what you wear on your feet. the minimal option should be under taken very slowly to allow your feet to strengthen and once you start running with virtually nothing on your feet it feels so much more natural you wont ever want to go back.

[dave]

it would be interesting to see this minimalist show thing applied to walking boots. Especially when you see people milling around the popular end in nepal top extremes.

[mikester]

Barefoot running is a really hot topic and Chris McDougall isn't without some weighty, evidence-based detractors...

http://sweatscience.com/chris-mcdougall-on-the-one-true-way-to-run/

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/06/barefoot-running-shoes-and-born-to-run.html

The blogs and tweets from these two sources are really worth keeping an eye on.

[duncan]

There is an element of "noble savage" romantic primitivism about much of the 'barefoot' running argument that reminds me of the paleo-diet enthusiasts.

I've had a degree of success with forefoot running in that I can run a couple of miles without breaking.  This is an achievement for me.  I started very, very slowly and any success could simply be due to patience rather than a new running style.  Having said that, forefoot running does seem to put less stress on my knees (but more on my Achilles). 

I started in a pair of cheap addidas fashion trainers  - virtually flat and with no padding at all - and progressed to some £90 Innov8 shoes.  I couldn't feel any difference between them.  I bet the plimsolls I semi-seriously recommended above work too.  The Innov8s will make excellent shoes to carry on long rock-routes though, they are amazingly light.

[Falling Down]

Walshes have pretty thin soles.  The five finger thing seems to go hand in hand with the drink-your-own-piss paleo crowd.  I have a feeling it's more to do with running on roads and concrete and the cadence that encourages.  Running off road seems to encourage a toe or mid-foot strike to keep balanced and a thinner sole goes better in slippy and soft conditions. But hey what do I know...

[Drew]

Inov8, who have been talking about minimalist shoes since they started (so possibly one of the earliest advocates of barefoot running) suggest a gradual movement towards less cushioning, and lower differentials. They show how much cushioning there is in all of their shoes and allow people to reduce in their own time.

If you're interested they suggest reducing by one chevron (each chevron, or Shock Zone Arrow represents 6mm at the heel, and 3mm at the front) over the course of 18 months.

[galpinos]

If you're interested they suggest reducing by one chevron (each chevron, or Shock Zone Arrow represents 6mm at the heel, and 3mm at the front) over the course of 18 months.

Being slightly cynical, how many pairs of shoes does that involve buying and at what cost?

[Plattsy]

I'm a heel striker on road and a bit of everything striker off-road depending on the terrain/conditions/how tired I am. Thin soles are fine when things are soft and slippy. Rocky/rooty paths can give me some serious pressure points pain (must man-up).

I'm keen to try out some minimalist shoes on the road mainly because they're a lot lighter (good), cheaper (good) and would like to see if forefoot running makes me faster (good). I'll probably end up injured and back running in my usual heavy shoes.

Plumped for a pair of Brooks Green Silence (only £40 on eBay)


Inov8 Evoskin Fail aka The Rubber Glove

Evoskin vs FF review

[Drew]

If you're interested they suggest reducing by one chevron (each chevron, or Shock Zone Arrow represents 6mm at the heel, and 3mm at the front) over the course of 18 months.

Being slightly cynical, how many pairs of shoes does that involve buying and at what cost?

Well assuming you replace your shoes every 300-500 miles as recommended, it kinda depends how far you run per month, but say you replace them every 6 months, you buy two or three pairs at say 4 chevrons, then two or three at 3 chevrons, and two or three at 2 chevrons. That's around 3 years of use, and 6 to 9 pairs of shoes, at the current price of 80 - 95 GBP, so we're looking at 480 - 855 GBP. 160 - 285 GBP per year for 3 years. Not a bad price really. How much is a decent MTB frame by comparison?

[Falling Down]

When I started fell running yonks ago I just switched straight to Walsh & Felldancers  that both had really thin soles and never had any problems.

[Plattsy]

First run in the minimalist Green Silences last night. Usual 4 mile route with middle of the road effort levels. Firstly the weight of the shoe is instantly noticable and feels great.

I tried not to consciously strike with my forefoot/midfoot from the start and to see how things progressed naturally (I've tried a bit before in my asics). I did appear to mostly strike midfoot from the start without much bother or effort. Trying this in my regular asics is more difficult and an effort. So I guess the promotion of forefoot/midfoot striking may be true and conversely the asics promote heel strike. (I did consciously try to shorten my stride and increase the cadence a bit which worked quite well)

Towards the end as I started to tire a little I did notice more heel strikes appearing and I guess this is to be expected as my gait changes. There were the odd twinge here and there mainly in my cock-eyed left leg but nothing like the knee pain I would get when trying forefoot/midfoot striking in the asics.

A good stretch after and so far today no ill effects. 

[Dolly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cYTb-ataCc4#!

[highrepute]

Quite an imteresting piece here

A lot of this guys work has been funded by Adidas so take with a pinch of salt. But basically he's saying footwear makes little difference. A well balanced structured training program would be of much more benefit.

Makes sense to me. All my running injuries have come from over doing it. It's never seemed to matter what shoe I wear.