[cha1n]

Hi

I wanted some accounts of how people progressed past the low 7's. Please can you let me know (roughly if that's the only time you have) what sort of training (if any) you had to do specifically to achieve this (e.g. anything additional to 'just climbing').

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If you have more time (bored/helpful) please read my background below:

I Have been bouldering for 2 years and am climbing at F7A+ and fr7b. Technique has been a big thing for me and I knew about most of the climbing techniques before I even climbed for the first time. I would say that my technique is my strong point.

I'm weak, I can do less than ten pull-ups last time I tried, can't really dead edges for very long, can't campus. Deadhanging hurts my shoulders (climbing doesn't) and generally bores me. I live 15 minutes away from TCA bristol and have a membership all through the autum/winter.

What I want to hear is that I can just keep on trying harder and harder boulder problems and I will naturally get stronger and won't have to train properly for a long time - is this true?

Would something like fingerboarding open up alot more to me in terms of improvement over just bouldering alone?

[Duma]

What I want to hear is that I can just keep on trying harder and harder boulder problems and I will naturally get stronger and won't have to train properly for a long time - is this true?

yes, but it won't be the quickest way to acheive this.

Would something like fingerboarding open up alot more to me in terms of improvement over just bouldering alone?

yes, but be careful of injury.
I'd say you need to do some strength work too: <10 pull ups is pretty weak for the grades you're climbing. There's plenty of steep problems on good holds at TCA which should help this.

It's still important you enjoy the process though, so don't spend time on stuff you're not enjoying.
Also I should mention that I do very little that isn't "just climbing" and am better than I am strong.

[r-man]

I didn't start fingerboarding till I hit 7C. Having said that, I bouldered indoors quite a lot, created problems to work specific moves or weaknesses, and mucked about footless now and then. If you want to get stronger without "training" then the fastest way is to climb steep terrain most of the time. If you know your technique is fine, do less aretes, slabs and walls, and get myopic about the overhangs. But like Duma said, keep enjoying it - training only works if you are motivated.

[nodder]

.......thought about it cant be bothered.  If you just like climbing do that if you like training do that, if you want to be better but dont like traing man up.  do not talk about or think about traing you have no intention of doing, sorry if this is unhelpful the reality is thats cos its true.

[cha1n]

Firstly, thanks for the replies.

Secondly, no need to apologise. I'd already decided that if I had a wave of people say 'you need to get training, mate', then that's what I was going to do. I'm sure I can get into training. I've been addicted to climbing since my first time bouldering so I'm sure I can get addicted to training!

Do people sacrifice climbing sessions for training or is it the type of thing you can do on a rest day? I currently (since the evening light deminished) boulder 3-4 times a week. Technique drills on the warm-up/down and then hit the overhangs.

My main weaknesses I'd like to work are finger strength and explosive power. I don't like the idea of campusing yet, but could footless problems be a good alternative?

This should probably be a seperate topic but did many people get shoulder pain when first starting to use a fingerboard? Also, I've read from numerous sources to hang off of a slightly bent arm but I find that my arm muscles fatigue before my fingers this way. Lastly, how long is recommended to consolidate at a certain intensity before moving on? I've heard that it should be weeks/months..

Thank you all for your help.

[tomtom]

I think that to be bouldering consistently in the low 7's after two years is great going! I would just keep on what you are doing and the grades/progression/strength and technique will come... Try varying the type of problems you do - so if you ahve a technique issue, work problems that require nouse not strength.. and vice versa..

The improvement curve always tails off - but will keep rising.. For some context, I re-started climbing properly c.5 years ago, and went from 6a to 7a in about 2-3 years.. and its taken another two years to consolidate  on 7A/7A+ (can get them after a little work most of the time unless its limestone!) and start to do a few (a handful) of 7B (singular) and 7B+'s (only just plural!)... if I make 7C by this time next year I'll be well happy...

[i_a_coops]

I'd have thought if you can boulder 7A+, you should be able to climb much harder than 7b with just a bit of work on redpointing tactics and stamina (both are trainable)..... my experience might be irrelevant though as I've always been monufuckingmentally over strong. 

[SA Chris]

I think that to be bouldering consistently in the low 7's after two years is great going! I would just keep on what you are doing and the grades/progression/strength and technique will come... Try varying the type of problems you do - so if you ahve a technique issue, work problems that require nouse not strength.. and vice versa..

True dat. Likewise vary rock types too.

[cha1n]

I've only been redpointing stuff since March and have gone from fr6b+ onsight to fr7b worked (after a couple of top ropes). I rarely find the moves hard on a route, I just get pumped out of my mind! Saying that, I had a play on a fr7c+ in the Wye Valley (www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=46188) and got shutdown on the crux move which is a really powerful move off of a good hold.

Powerful moves are definately hard for me, I usually find some sneaky way of using my legs to propel me to distant holds so when there's no other way than to be strong-armed I struggle!

Also, on steep ground and small edges where there is no feet (e.g. crux of the green traverse at Stanage) my fingers struggle to take the strain. I usually put LOTS of weight through my feet! I was disappointed when an onlooker told me I couldn't use heels on the green traverse (after doing it with lots of heel/toe hooks)! 

[tomtom]

Was that Lagerstarfish telling you no heels? #plantationFeds

for inspiration and why you don't have to have beast strength look no further than Ondra.. He can't do a one armer, and compared to his contemporaries is 'weak' but has other strengths...

I've partly given up on campussy problems (like GT) as it just hurts my elbows! Finger, Sloper strength and core can make a huge difference..

[Oldmanmatt]

I restarted climbing around 2 years back after a long layoff.
Casually at first, building up strength bouldering steep stuff on the wall and on rock.
Gradually reducing hold size on slabs/walls (going up the grades).
After about a year, the strength was back and only then did I start serious training.
I found the Campusing and fingerboarding came naturally, although it hurt in the beginning and progress was slow.
Pull ups? Put up a bar/finger board, a few every day and soon you'll be cranking them out. That will help with shoulder strength (lowering and controlling).
Press ups are great for that too. I always went for the most I could do and then try to add one more each day (not always possible!), within a month I'd gone from 10 to 30...
I still have a problem with dead hangs, no shoulder pain, but just holding them...
I've been climbing for over 30 years and I'm convinced there is an order of magnitude shift, to progress from F7a to F7c; more akin to going from 5's to F7a.
Don't be surprised if the progress slows at this point.
Started enjoying the training thing much more when I started discussing it with guys/girls at the wall and making it a more social/friendly competition type activity.
By taking it slow, I've avoided injury.
I train three times a week, hopefully climbing at the weekend (not that that happens right now for personal reasons).
The foot/heel hook thing... I've never got that (I suppose I can see some point to it), I always take the view the object is to get from A to B, how you do it depends on you and your strengths. If a hold is in for your hand then it's in for your feet, anything else is training; not climbing...
I don't collect ticks. I've found that I've done routes/problems and then tried to repeat a few weeks later and been stumped, so when would you tick it? If you were honest, only when you can consistently repeat it...
I understand why people do collect, it's just not for me.
If you are consistently finishing F7a+ after only two years, I'd say that's Bloody Good!!
I can still fall off a F6a on a bad day...

[i_a_coops]

An important thing to remember is that training hard and trying hard isn't uncool. Everyone seems to want to be the guy who does no training, can barely do a pullup, and rocks up at the crag hungover and waltzes up 8As. I think it's much more impressive when people who aren't 'naturally talented' get better than those wankers (if they exist) through serious effort, whether that effort just be getting out and climbing loads or more specific training.

Also writing off climbing for training sounds daft to me, but I do live over a hundred miles from rock.

[cha1n]

I think the main thing that's put me off of training up to now, has been the repetitive nature of it. I enjoy bouldering because I like the challenge of overcoming a difficult problem. The few occasions I've had a go at deadhanging I just got really bored.

Thing is, if I chose my problems carefully I've always been able to overcome strength issues with clever footwork but this is getting harder and harder now. More often than not, I'm getting to stopper moves where no amount of trickery can get you past that powerful move or tiny crimp.

Suppose I better dust my campus rung off..

[SA Chris]

Sortout your training setup so you can watch telly, listen to music or podcasts. Reduces the boredom factor at least.

[ianv]

If you want to increase your strength then it is definitely worth doing stuff other than just climbing.

The times that I made the quickest improvements were when I was unable to climb much and spent a decent amount of time in the gym (pull downs/one arm pull downs/powerpulls etc) and on finger/campus type boards . 

I wouldn't think of this type of training as missed opportunities to climb, rather putting in the work so that when you do climb, you can climb harder. This is likely to be particularly relevant if (as you seem to suggest) you weaknesses are fingers and back.

[cha1n]

I did try watching tv but the whole process is so stop/start that I ended up not really paying attention to the TV anyway. Music was better I suppose.

What I'd like to do (seeing as I have a membership at my local wall) is warm up on some easy climbing for 15 mins and then to my deadhanging at the wall but there always ends up being a queue for the beastmaker as here's alot of people who warm up on the beastmaker instead of using the vast array of easy climbing available at the wall (what's that all about?!).

I'll work something out, I bet this time next month I'll be a training addict..

[Omar15]

have you got on the woody at tca? that's awesome for finger strength, I know it doesn't look like much, but start climbing on it and it'll definitely improve your finger strength and power - just don't do it too much or you'll probably get injured. Its a great combination between climbing and training.

also, fingerboarding is awesome if you get into it!

[cha1n]

I've felt the holds on the system board at TCA and to be honest, I think I'd injure myself with my current finger strength.

I've already had fairly serious A2 pulley injuries (3 months of no crimping each) because I was a natural crimper and didn't realise it's dangers. I also get ring finger, tendon injuries for fun when trying to pull hard on 3 fingers (main 3, either hand). Back 3 are fine though. I've also got a dodgy PIP joint on my left hand as I broke my middle finger backwards at the PIP snowboarding 5 years ago.. Oh and weird join pain around the sides of my DIP joints on both middle fingers, not really sure what this one's about but hurts under quite minimal pressure if pressed in the right place. Not usually too bad unless pressed weirdly whilst using pockets.

Basically, I get injured quite easily.. heh.

[Doylo]

Sounds like you are making good progress. You've achieved a decent level in a short space of time and you've laid good foundations technique wise so you'll be cranking when the strength increases come. The most important thing is motivation and if you can sustain it you will get to where you wanna be. We all progress at different rates, i only got into bouldering 3/4 years after starting climbing and didn't have much natural strength to speak of. I've known people with all the natural strength in the world but quite a few hardly climb now so it's not much use!  Motivation is the key!  The way i get around training being boring is by climbing inside rather than doing much of the dull stuff like deadhanging and campussing. I'm lucky as i've always had access to really good boards and now it feels like a genre of climbing in it's own right.  At your level steep bouldering will give you great improvements and if you can enjoy the movement and get psyched for the problems in their own right it will feel like cheating! and try not to be too impatient, Rome wasn't built in a day!

[cha1n]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone, you've all been really positive and helpful. People I climb with are always telling me that I've progressed well for how long I've been climbing but I guess it's easy for me to forget because they are all climbing at the same level or slightly higher, though they've been climbing for 5-10 years or more.

One of my main partners for last summer went from fr6a to fr7c in 2 years and he is one of the worst boulderers (considering how hard he sport climbs) that I've ever seen. Imagine what he'd be like if he makes some good progress in bouldering!

I'm definately very motivated for the climbing side of things. I can easily try a single problem for several hours without getting bored. I recently tried the jump at Deliverance about 70 times over about 4 hours the and only stopped because my girlfriend had got bored bouldering on the easy stuff (think i'm going to try the high right foot method when I'm back there next).

I quite often go to TCA Bristol, warm up and spend a whole 3 hour session on 1 or 2 problems which are right at my limit. People have said to me that it must be like torture but I love it! I think I have mental problems..

[ducko]

Start training on your weak points if your technique is good get strong and the reward will be getting up those problems you never thought you would do

[Doylo]

listen to '7c in 2 years ducko!'

[cha1n]

Ha, yeah this guy is even more motivated than me. He must have had about 50 climbing partners this year, anything to make sure he got out climbing most days.

It worked though and like I said, terrible boulderer. He doesn't even know how and when to heel hook! I think he's taking my advice and decided to join in bouldering this winter though..

[ducko]

15months 
Im lucky with my job as I have loads of time off to climb I wouldn't class my technique as being my strong point thou, I did lots of MTB'ing so I had a bit of strength which I think helped

[Doylo]

  You're heading for great things me lad, first shallow water solo of Big Bang and Pilgrimage in slippers