[douglas]

To anyone with the knowledge...

Are there benefits to doing reverse / eccentric curls to strengthen my flexor tendons alongside my usual climbing or do these exercises only serve to heal injured tendons?

If there are, I am guessing it's best not to do them immediately before or after climbing but rather when I'm rested?

And finally, I have been doing two types, the finger rolls here (http://www.athlon.com.au/articles/r&i_dodgyelbow.pdf) and rotation exercise here (http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=3614). These work different muscles but the tendon is attached to the same point so is it the same tendon and don't I need to do both?

Thank you. They flared up recently and I'd rather it doesn't happen again, it's not even winter yet!

[Nibile]

I've found the curls very useful for my elbows. also i have done loads of triceps in the gym and they helped a lot also.

[douglas]

Cheers! Do you do the curls after a session or at another time? And these are to prevent elbow problems rather than rehab with sore elbows?

[i.munro]

To anyone with the knowledge...

Are there benefits to doing reverse / eccentric curls to strengthen my flexor tendons alongside my usual climbing or do these exercises only serve to heal injured tendons?

If there are, I am guessing it's best not to do them immediately before or after climbing but rather when I'm rested?

After a couple of bouts of golfers elbow physio recommended continuing to do the appropriate (for me the ones in the athlon.com) version as maintenance forever.
However I can't fnd any research to back this up so she may have been guessing ??

More helpfully my elbow problems were diagnosed as arising from poor shoulder posture so might be worth getting that looked at.

[shark]

After a couple of bouts of golfers elbow physio recommended continuing to do the appropriate (for me the ones in the athlon.com) version as maintenance forever.
However I can't fnd any research to back this up so she may have been guessing ??

My take was that the effect the athlon exercise has is to stimulate/aggravate the area to get the body to respond to the injury and cure it rather than strengthening as such in a way that would be useful for injury prevention.

More helpfully my elbow problems were diagnosed as arising from poor shoulder posture so might be worth getting that looked at.

Show me a keen climber who hasn't.

Good advice on correcting kyphosis (gorilla posture)

[i.munro]

After a couple of bouts of golfers elbow physio recommended continuing to do the appropriate (for me the ones in the athlon.com) version as maintenance forever.
However I can't fnd any research to back this up so she may have been guessing ??

My take was that the effect the athlon exercise has is to stimulate/aggravate the area to get the body to respond to the injury and cure it rather than strengthening as such in a way that would be useful for injury prevention.

Well I did have a re-occurrence of golfers elbow shortly aftter letting my maintenance regime (including eccentric wrist curls)  slip for a bit but, as we all know, anecdote isn't evidence.
OTOH it may be all we've got in this case.

[Nibile]

Cheers! Do you do the curls after a session or at another time? And these are to prevent elbow problems rather than rehab with sore elbows?

I did them to rehab and to prevent. I use them as a semi specific warm up routine, when I feel my elbows a bit sore.
luckily I could do weights even during the acute phase of the inflammation.

[Big Dave]

I found best thing I did when I had golfers elbow a few years ago was reverse wrist curls, standing with a barbell behind my back. Press ups helped too.

[mrjonathanr]

My take was that the effect the athlon exercise has is to stimulate/aggravate the area to get the body to respond to the injury and cure it rather than strengthening as such in a way that would be useful for injury prevention.

Logically what's the difference? You're strenthening the tendon relative to the muscle, no matter what the starting point (injured vs healthy).

OP: Relaying what the physio has told me: 1 Yes  2 Doesn't really matter when

[Probes]

The broom handle with weight on a piece of string and twisting it up and down, is according to my physio the best rehab or injury prevention for both tennis or golfers. The direct of twist depending on which one. He said climbers are so susecptable becuase muscles are functioning most of the time isometrically, and just doing literally 30 secs at the end of a session could save tendontitis developing.
Trying to find a link to it..

[douglas]

Thanks for the advice everyone. It seems like it's worth doing curls to help keep it away.

Probes, the isometric information is interesting, I've been trying to understand lately why athletes such as rowers and swimmers are able to train safely twice a day with realtively little build up in volume whereas climbers really struggle with this.

mrjonathanr, the injured vs healty thing, I was confused too but I thought it might be possible that the reverse curls heal rather than strengthen, so they'd be pointless to do if the tendon was healed because they'd do nothing. I could read some science about this I expect.

[Probes]

Yeh douglas as i understand it, your muscle develops strength in one position but becomes relatively weak in another, thus when the strain is shifted it the weak bits cant cope and the tendons take the impact. Yeah 'proper' athletes like rowers tend to train the full ranges of movement and the muscles are working evenly and strong throughtout.

[saulgilsenan]

The broom handle with weight on a piece of string and twisting it up and down, is according to my physio the best rehab or injury prevention for both tennis or golfers. The direct of twist depending on which one. He said climbers are so susecptable becuase muscles are functioning most of the time isometrically, and just doing literally 30 secs at the end of a session could save tendontitis developing.
Trying to find a link to it..

This the one?

[Nibile]

if I got it right, the string is attached to the broom handle, between your hands, and by twisting the broom handle you roll the string around the handle, pulling up the weight.
can't find a vid.

[TobyD]

Thanks for the advice everyone. It seems like it's worth doing curls to help keep it away.

Probes, the isometric information is interesting, I've been trying to understand lately why athletes such as rowers and swimmers are able to train safely twice a day with realtively little build up in volume whereas climbers really struggle with this.

1) Yes, opposition exercise is pretty much essential if you are doing a lot of climbing / training. Tricep push ups are good (elbows in next to your body)
2) Rowers and swimmers tend to be trying to train endurance, and using much larger muscles groups than we are trying to train in climbing. Forearm flexors are a relatively small group, with an attachment which is fairly injury prone, even in non climbers. If you are well trained, and going for endurance in climbing, several sessions a day are feasible, but most people would struggle with injury (i would think) if they tried to train climbing power twice a day and didn't take rest days. I'm not an expert, but some translateable knowledge, which hopefully answers that question partly?

[mrjonathanr]

mrjonathanr, the injured vs healty thing, I was confused too but I thought it might be possible that the reverse curls heal rather than strengthen, so they'd be pointless to do if the tendon was healed because they'd do nothing. I could read some science about this I expect.

The processes governing the tendon's response are just the same, surely?

[michal]

Another anecdotal data point but, for what it's worth....

I find doing the eccentric exercises from the Dr. Saunders' article at least once or twice a week after climbing or training to be essential in keeping elbow pain away.  I had problems with golfers' elbow for years and these exercises have sorted them out completely.  If I go a few weeks without doing the eccentric exercises I notice the elbow tenderness creeping back in and it goes away shortly after resuming the exercises.  I also have noticed that doing bicep curls turning the palm up as I curl to be helpful for my elbows - again, a use through full range of motion thing, I suppose.

[dannybrownclimb]

Some excellent advice above but if you want a physio to have a quick look The Clinic is running a FREE injury clinic at The Foundry on Monday from 7pm. Check us out at www.919clinic.co.uk
We are all climbers and generally can help. There are some good eccentric exercise videos there as well.
Easy