[AndyR]

Not like you to be negative Paul, must have been the altitude.

Anyone with experience of both able to compare it to the Bugs?

Just been to both in the last month or so.
They're pretty different - the hulk feels like high mountain cragging (albeit, some of the most stellar granite cragging there is) and the bivy/camping is casual - it's a truly beautiful spot, but the views from it you could be in several places in the Sierra - objective danger is mostly limited to afternoon thunderstorms creeping up on you. Highly recommended.

The bugs definitely feel alpine with all the additional objective hazards that that brings - have to carry axe/crampons etc and you always have an eye on the weather - lots of accidents up there... But they're truly unique, rock quality is mostly excellent and when you're up on a spire looking out, you can only be in one place - most highly recommended! Patagonia-lite for those of us without time to get there...

Both places becoming ever more popular though - it would be rare to have them to yourselves unless climbing off-season. Best stick to Baffin if you want some solitude...

[Fultonius]

Lots more great tips, cheers.

We'll aim for our bigger routes midweek and try to travel between places on the weekends.  I think by the time we'll be at the Hulk it'll be outside staffed season for the permits, so it's self cert time I think.

[Fultonius]

Anyone got some good beta on the best places to grab a shower in the US?  We're dossing in a van, usually roadside. My partner needs active encouragement to bother washing...

Long's Peak was fun, trad climbing at 4000m makes grades a bit arbitrary!

Now off to Gunnison...

[Paul B]

Black Canyon?!

Big truck stops on the interstates always have pay to use showers (they were generally good too).

[SA Chris]

Quite a lot of State Parks have pay / free showers in the campground. You usually need to pay to drive into the state park or use the campground, but you could just walk into it with a small bag with shower kit in it.

[duncan]

Five good Alpine rockaneering (didn't they get the memo?) routes from the BMC. The Gelbe Mauer, the Spigolo Nord Monte Agnèr (1600m!), and the W. Grat of Salbitschijen all meet the criteria and are reputedly bonafide classics.

[Fultonius]

Black Canyon?!

Hell Yeah!  Just had 2 days there, not half as sketchy as the reputation - I'd happily go back but maybe a month later when the south facing stuff I more bareable.

Made it up a 5.11c thin hands pitch (the lightning bolt crack) in my broken-in TC Pros, with comfort - turns out they are the best of both worlds! Happy days!

[Wood FT]

Black Canyon?!

Hell Yeah!  Just had 2 days there, not half as sketchy as the reputation - I'd happily go back but maybe a month later when the south facing stuff I more bareable.

Made it up a 5.11c thin hands pitch (the lightning bolt crack) in my broken-in TC Pros, with comfort - turns out they are the best of both worlds! Happy days!

Would love to hear more info about the black canyon when you get a chance

[Fultonius]

What d'ya wanna know?

It was too hot for the South Side sunny routes (The Cruise/Scenic Cruise Etc.), but everything on the Comic Releif buttress was fine (shady) with an early start. Prime time is late Sep/Early October, or April(ish).

We had no problems with Poison Ivy and if you have survived Gogarth approaches then the descent gullies are a cakewalk.

The climbing is great! Featured gneis, but climbs more like granite than Hebrides gneiss. Grades see friendly, few chimneys/offwidths and the cracks climb quite well due to reasonably featured rock (when compared to yosemite/squamish).

It's quite remote, no phone reception. Campsite is $15/night but the ranger let us doss in the van for free, I doubt this is common though. There's a guidebook in the ranger station (North rim) which they let you make copies of.

Go, GO, GOOO!   

[rosmat]

Black Canyon?!

Hell Yeah!  Just had 2 days there, not half as sketchy as the reputation - I'd happily go back but maybe a month later when the south facing stuff I more bareable.

Made it up a 5.11c thin hands pitch (the lightning bolt crack) in my broken-in TC Pros, with comfort - turns out they are the best of both worlds! Happy days!

Glad you're liking the TC Pro's

[Duncan campbell]

Black Canyon?!

Hell Yeah!  Just had 2 days there, not half as sketchy as the reputation - I'd happily go back but maybe a month later when the south facing stuff I more bareable.

Made it up a 5.11c thin hands pitch (the lightning bolt crack) in my broken-in TC Pros, with comfort - turns out they are the best of both worlds! Happy days!

Would love to hear more info about the black canyon when you get a chance

Lets go someday! Well psyched to check out the Black!

[Johnny Brown]

Anyone wise to the potential within striking distance of Munich? Got a meeting there next month and looks like the easyjet schedule will force us to have a day spare...

PS if Dunc C is reading, where's the Lundy trip report?

[dave]

Something in the Rofan range?

[Muenchener]

Read German and/or got google translate bookmarked? Good.

How hard?

I mentioned Wassersymphonie  in the berchtesgadener Alps right back at the beginning of this thread. 15 pitches 6c+ (on one pitch). I still haven’t done it, but have done another route on the same wall in September and it was fine conditions-wise. But: 15 pitches, long approach, north facing … might not be the best bet in October.

Shorter, south facing, harder & more sustained, supposed to be a classic but way out of my league: Tschi-Tschi on the Martinswand in Innsbruck. There are plenty of other easier multipitch routes on the Martinswand but they’re rather slabby and samey.

Feeling brave? Locker vom Hocker  on the Schüsselkarpsitze. Was reckoned to be a contender for hardest rock route in the alps when Kurt’n’Wolfie did it. Gets UIAA “8” which normally translates as 7a, but better thought of as “early 80s cutting edge” so probably around E5/6 or so. And don’t forget the thousand metres height gain on the two and a half hour approach. (The beer is better at the higher of the two huts halfway up. Or down) Not too long though, and fantastic area scenically.

(Sorry, couldn’t find a good online topo for L vom H. Check it out on google images though)

Haven't done much in the Rofan, bu it certainly looks like a good bet for not too long autumn multipitch on good rock, with a lift to take the sting out of the approach. There are other areas closer to Munich that have shorter multipitch routes on immaculate rock - Ross & Buchstein, Plankenstein, Leonhardstein - but they probably don't qualify as "fairly long".

[duncan]

The climbing is great! Featured gneis, but climbs more like granite than Hebrides gneiss. Grades see friendly, few chimneys/offwidths and the cracks climb quite well due to reasonably featured rock (when compared to yosemite/squamish).

It's quite remote, no phone reception. Campsite is $15/night but the ranger let us doss in the van for free, I doubt this is common though. There's a guidebook in the ranger station (North rim) which they let you make copies of.

Go, GO, GOOO!   

That's great. I'd love to go but the season doesn't fit ideally with times I can take off at present.

Anyone wise to the potential within striking distance of Munich? Got a meeting there next month and looks like the easyjet schedule will force us to have a day spare...

Wilder Kaiser or Fleischbank (Kaisergeberge) about 90 minutes just over the border in Austria?

[Johnny Brown]

That's brilliant, thanks. Wassersymphonie looks amazing indeed, but something shorter will be sensible yeah. Just finding the crag and the approach is going to be key I think. Its going to be a day hit in a hire car, although we may be able to bag a doss in Innsbruck.

Shorter, south facing, harder & more sustained, supposed to be a classic but way out of my league: Tschi-Tschi on the Martinswand in Innsbruck. There are plenty of other easier multipitch routes on the Martinswand but they’re rather slabby and samey.

This looks perfect, albeit I haven't a clue what the grades mean. It gets 8 like the other one, just less old-school gnarl?

There are other areas closer to Munich that have shorter multipitch routes on immaculate rock - Ross & Buchstein, Plankenstein, Leonhardstein -

Sounds great too, I'll do some research...

[Muenchener]

"8" on the Tschi-Tschi topo is UIAA VIII =~ 7a. (And Martinswand grades are tough)

Martinswand is probably the best bet for a quick single day hit with no navigational difficulties, although it gets a bit loud because its directly above the autobahn. It's a big roadside crag, whereas the other places I mentioned have alpine approaches with a bit of a march where it helps to know where you're going.

[SA Chris]

Ross & Buchstein, Plankenstein, Leonhardstein -

There's enough puns there to last a lifetime.

[Fultonius]

Black Canyon?!

Hell Yeah!  Just had 2 days there, not half as sketchy as the reputation - I'd happily go back but maybe a month later when the south facing stuff I more bareable.

Made it up a 5.11c thin hands pitch (the lightning bolt crack) in my broken-in TC Pros, with comfort - turns out they are the best of both worlds! Happy days!

Glad you're liking the TC Pro's

Yeah - more so than I expected and on sale in REI so double winner. I thought I'd maybe got them a half size big when climbing on Long's Peak, but now I'm in the heat of the desert they're spot on!  (same size as I run in most scarpas, 43.5)  I wee bit stiff and clumsy for those thin fingers/fingers splitters, but in the thin hands and above sizes, best shoe I've used.

[jwi]

Quick Question: I am in Stanford for a few weeks and have very little time for climbing, but I might have time to go to Yosemite this week end. I have never been, and this will have to be a blitz visit, so I wont have too much time to punter around. Well. Question: Do I need a camalot #5 (new sizes) for Astroman? Do I need a camalot #6 for Rostrum or is it OK to run it out on the offwidths?


(+ I put up some pitch-notes for two moderate routes in Gorge de la Jonte + three in Verdon on my blog, http://steepground.blogspot.fr/ )

[ghisino]

punter around. Well. Question: Do I need a camalot #5 (new sizes) for Astroman?

only know it up to the Harding slot (late start...)

a 5 isn't necessary at all, but a 6 is handy.

without a 6 you are condemning yourself to either of the following scenarios:

1) a hard aid-to-squeeze-chimney transition. much easier with a 6.
2) freeing the boulder problem on the Harding slot.

then in both cases you will run it out for 5 meters of the tightest squeeze, though the 6 is mainly psychological there : i'ts so tight that if you slip, you'll probably get stuck well before weighting the cam... 

[duncan]

A large cam would be an impediment on Astroman. There is good gear by your knee for the transition into the slot and, as ghisino says, you're not going to fall out once you are in.

The Rostrum is a harder call. I had just a number 4 and it seemed OK but I was young, dumb and had climbed a number of Yosemite offwidths already. If I recall correctly, the 10a 6th pitch has a bolt half way up and the last pitch has some 5.9 is fairly low but gradually eases as you get higher. Might be chilly up there at this time of year and the last pitch can stay damp for a short time after rain.

[Johnny Brown]

The off-width on the Rostrum is pretty steady as I remember. I'd only take a big cam if it's a real weak spot of yours. The top pitch is very short, I don't remember it being an off-width, more a layback, but I'm sure Duncan is right. There is repeated footage of it on that Honnold news doc.

[T_B]

If I remember rightly, there's an RP on the offwidth pitch. That's me casting my mind back 20+ years, so I may have got that wrong though. As JB says it's steady away anyway...

(As an aside, my partner fell out of the bottom of the Harding Slot on Astroman and pulled his (red?) Camelot straight out of the slick crack).

[Fultonius]

Haven't done Astroman, but on the Rostrum we had a big cam.

On the 10b offwidth pitch (aka the UK crux!) I think I had a 4.5 in somewhere then, with advice from above, placed the big one. I then spent 20 minutes trying to get past it, before slipping a little and ending up standing on it....

It's kind nice to have it for the final 5.9, but you can only shuffle it so far before it risks getting eaten and joining the stomach of the chimney along wit it's many other meals!

I think that route ranks in my all time top 10, not that I have one, but if I did, it would.

If you're talking about The Rostrum, then no, there aren't any RPs as far I can remember from 3 years ago.

If I remember rightly, there's an RP on the offwidth pitch. That's me casting my mind back 20+ years, so I may have got that wrong though. As JB says it's steady away anyway...

(As an aside, my partner fell out of the bottom of the Harding Slot on Astroman and pulled his (red?) Camelot straight out of the slick crack).